About Stall Psychology and Pilots

On Feb 17, 4:23*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
WingFlaps wrote :



On Feb 17, 1:09*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
WingFlaps wrote
innews:d5d4b4b5-aecb-4672-aae0-8c871
:

On Feb 17, 12:41*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
WingFlaps wrote
innews:617cc4fe-42ad-4f70-940b-916fa
:

On Feb 17, 11:41*am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote
innews:5df6e0b3-35d5-490f-8b31-1a1fbe48eeed@62g
2000hsn.googlegroups.com:

On Feb 15, 6:37 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in
news:ebb74b75-9910-4c50-ae86-
:

On Feb 15, 3:56 pm, Dudley Henriques
wrote:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Man there are a lot of posts on this topic. Too much
newsgrouping, people need to do more flying

When my airplane is finished!

Bertie

Watchu building?

A Hatz, but it's a Citabria being restored I'm waiting to fly.

Are you building alone? How far along is it? Where is it -I'd
like to see it if I got the chance.

It's in my shop, of course!

The Hatz is not as far along as it ought to be! the Citabria is
nearly done ( I hope) and whouc be up and going in a few weeks.

Ah, OK I understand you don't wan't to reveal you location but
perhaps you could tell me the time zone on my gmail?

Sorry! but there are a string of very ****ed off people looking for
Bertie!

N70 your field?

Negative on that, but have a Wild Turkey on me. Yes, I can imagine you
have the weak minded baying for your blood -in life I've found you
always collect enemies while friends come and go.

Well, on usenet it's been sort of an avocation. in particular there are
a gang of nazis with a penchant for going RL that have been trying to
find me for years.

Well it takes everyone a while to understand not to take anything too
seriously and some never get it at all. Their testicle-aggression
circuit is hard wired and not subject to control. Neither intelligence
or the calming of wisdom that comes with age seems to modify "hate"
behaviour in some people and these people never say mea culpa. In what
group would one find these brown shirts?

Cheers

We bug a diffeent approach speed for each weight.

How are the weights delivered up to you guys in the control room? And
the weight's distribution?

It seems like the handlers just jam whatever they've got on the cart
in the hole.

Is the stuff weighed and put onto the carts in a certain way and then
loaded according to some train-oriented protocol?

I just knock off a few knots if I'm
light, basically.

Bertie

And you know you're light because you have the fuel left, the "empty
weight", and the number of bodies plus estimate (or weighed) total
baggage?

Just curious how it works.

I think that Google found it for me and the spelling of the author's first
name is Derek *The article is at:http://www.danlj.org/~danlj/Soaring/Clues/SDO.html

Peter-

Wow, this is excellent. Thanks!

On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 00:20:05 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

Big John wrote in
:

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:43:10 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

That's true. After the war a lot of highly qualified pilots hit the
streets as new GA instructors. They brought with them the military
approach to flying that was based on maximum result in minimum time,
which was the natural process of the military scenario.
Many of these pilots were great sticks, but few of them possessed
any teaching skills at all as we define those skills in a GA market
place. The result of this influx was a no nonsense teaching
environment that actually clashed with the changes that were
occurring in GA at that time. Gradually, these military pilots
became a liability in the new marketplace and many were "replaced"
as FBO's began to realize that new students like "Mrs. Duffy" the
housewife, was coming back in from her hour of dual looking a bit
pale and concerned :-)

What happened is what we have now; a few holdovers from the "old
school" and a whole lot of the "new breed" of instructor.

The ultimate answer to getting the quality level up in the GA pilot
community will in my opinion require a whole new look at the way
flight instruction is conducted.

I know from my own personal experience that it is possible to take
an average newbie with the average apprehensive feeling about flying
and take that newbie through a learning process that replaces the
apprehension with confidence. These newbies can be trained by GOOD
instructors to function not only well, but VERY well in the flying
environment with comfort zones well beyond their initial level of
apprehension found at the initiation of training.

Barring the influx of CFI's who are capable of teaching students in
this manner, I would project no meaningful changes in the present GA
environment.



I've had very few nervous students. Only two that really stood out
that i can recall. One was terrfied of stalls and did this
hyperventilating thing, which was really freaky, every time we went to
do them. He got over it by me demonstrating that the airplane would
sit happily in the stall for ages without the earth coming up to smite
us. He got over it. Another guy was terrified of the engine failing
and no amount of explaining to him that the idling engine was the same
as having the engine not running at all made no difference at all to
him, he spent most of every flight half freaked out over the prospect
of this happening. I finally got so ****ed off with him I just pulled
the mixture and raised the nose until the prop stopped. The
transformation in him was almost instantaneous.
In retrospect, it was not such a clever thing to do since we were at
about 1,000' and nowhere near an airport! It started up straight away,
fortunately. That's an incident/accident that would have made
interesting reading.

It worked, though.


Bertie
************************************************** ********************
*
*******

Bertie

I used to shut the engine down in a T-33 to give students an actuall
air start. Had them talk me through the air start procedure as they
did each step so I could correct them if they were going to screw up.

Know there was a lot of talking back in baracks at night between my
studebts but they all learned the emergency rocedures as they never
knew if I was going to give them an actual emergency to use the
procedures in.

I talked to some of my students years later and they all said that
what I did in training made them good Fighter Pilots in the Squadrons.


Good fun, eh?

Did they have hydraulic controls?


Bertie
************************************************** ***********

Elevator and rudder manual control unboosted.

Ailerons had manual connection plus a boost system. Bird could be
flown ok with engine out but ailerons were just a little heavy. You
just didn't crank bird into a steep turn engine out as was slow ro
straighten backout due to rather heavy aileron control.

Big John

wrote in message
...
I think that Google found it for me and the spelling of the author's first
name is Derek The article is
at:http://www.danlj.org/~danlj/Soaring/Clues/SDO.html

Peter-

Wow, this is excellent. Thanks!

---------------------------------

Well, I printed it out and read it and it was a great article. But, about
three quarters of the way through it, I found that it was not the originally
requested treatise, which I could only find offered in printed form. That
one appears to be: "Sub-gravity Sensations and Gliding Accidents" 1994 by
Derek Piggott, and is available from the Soaring Society of America amoung
other places.

Peter

On Feb 16, 5:30 pm, Benjamin Dover wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote :
....
Just for the record, and on the off chance that there might just be
one person on Usenet who needs to be informed of this, please be
advised that regardless of what this idiot says and when he uses my
name in his posts; I am in NO way even remotely involved with this
character in any way whatsoever.

Well, that's true. Are we supposed to put AoA meters
on all control surfaces, such as Elevators, Ailerons,
Rudder, Flaps or just the main wing?
Dud, have you ever heard of a *stall warning audio
annunciator*?
In sims I've installed an AoA meter, it's basically
an aerodynamic curiousity.

It should be obvious that Ken always puts the "S" between "Ken" and
"Tucker" to emphasize to everyone that he is a total ****HEAD!

Well Mr. BenDover snicker, you seem to have
a curiousity about what's in other peoples asses,
so you're a queer, not that there's anything wrong
with that, but most people wouldn't want to spend
too much time in a cockpit with you, except Bertie,
butt that's a given.

OK, back to aerodynamics.
Ken

WingFlaps wrote in
:

On Feb 17, 4:23*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
WingFlaps wrote
innews:a075a388-fe88-4927-a442-68648
:



On Feb 17, 1:09*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
WingFlaps wrote
innews:d5d4b4b5-aecb-4672-aae0-8c871
:

On Feb 17, 12:41*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
WingFlaps wrote
innews:617cc4fe-42ad-4f70-940b-916fa
:

On Feb 17, 11:41*am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote
innews:5df6e0b3-35d5-490f-8b31-1a1fbe48eeed@62g
2000hsn.googlegroups.com:

On Feb 15, 6:37 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in
news:ebb74b75-9910-4c50-ae86-
:

On Feb 15, 3:56 pm, Dudley Henriques
wrote:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Man there are a lot of posts on this topic. Too much
newsgrouping, people need to do more flying

When my airplane is finished!

Bertie

Watchu building?

A Hatz, but it's a Citabria being restored I'm waiting to
fly.

Are you building alone? How far along is it? Where is it -I'd
like to see it if I got the chance.

It's in my shop, of course!

The Hatz is not as far along as it ought to be! the Citabria is
nearly done ( I hope) and whouc be up and going in a few weeks.

Ah, OK I understand you don't wan't to reveal you location but
perhaps you could tell me the time zone on my gmail?

Sorry! but there are a string of very ****ed off people looking
for Bertie!

N70 your field?

Negative on that, but have a Wild Turkey on me. Yes, I can imagine
you have the weak minded baying for your blood -in life I've found
you always collect enemies while friends come and go.

Well, on usenet it's been sort of an avocation. in particular there
are a gang of nazis with a penchant for going RL that have been
trying to find me for years.

Well it takes everyone a while to understand not to take anything too
seriously and some never get it at all. Their testicle-aggression
circuit is hard wired and not subject to control. Neither intelligence
or the calming of wisdom that comes with age seems to modify "hate"
behaviour in some people and these people never say mea culpa. In what
group would one find these brown shirts?


alt.religion.asatru Dirk breure and one of his asslicks named nik are
teh two that are the most fun to torment. Dirk has his own political
party!

They aren't your standard brownshirt types, BTW. They're kind of new age
nazis and vehemently deny any connection, but poke them with a sharp
stick for a while and you'll see..


Bertie

wrote in news:0459303d-a8cb-4123-911c-
:

We bug a diffeent approach speed for each weight.

How are the weights delivered up to you guys in the control room? And
the weight's distribution?



It seems like the handlers just jam whatever they've got on the cart
in the hole.

Is the stuff weighed and put onto the carts in a certain way and then
loaded according to some train-oriented protocol?

I just knock off a few knots if I'm
light, basically.

Bertie

And you know you're light because you have the fuel left, the "empty
weight", and the number of bodies plus estimate (or weighed) total
baggage?

Ah that last bit I was talking about when I fly a light plane.

We get a load sheet with the various weights on it ( zero fuel, empty,
TOW, etc) and a balance position based on MAC. It's not all that much
different than you'd do it in a 172, really. We get a trim position
translated from the MAC, though and we just set that number on the trim
indicator. We go into tables for a specific runway with weight info and
get a V1 Vr and V2 from that as well as a thrust reduction if we're
light enough to use one.
The airplane is compartmentalised for load sheet purposes and we could
do it by hand if we had to but it's all computerised. Even if we were in
the wilderness with nobody to hamdle us we can get one over the ACARS
thing we have in the cockpit ( sort of like phone texting)

Bertie

Big John wrote in
:

On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 00:20:05 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

Big John wrote in
m:

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:43:10 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip

wrote:

Dudley Henriques wrote in
t:

That's true. After the war a lot of highly qualified pilots hit
the
streets as new GA instructors. They brought with them the military
approach to flying that was based on maximum result in minimum
time,
which was the natural process of the military scenario.
Many of these pilots were great sticks, but few of them possessed
any teaching skills at all as we define those skills in a GA
market
place. The result of this influx was a no nonsense teaching
environment that actually clashed with the changes that were
occurring in GA at that time. Gradually, these military pilots
became a liability in the new marketplace and many were "replaced"
as FBO's began to realize that new students like "Mrs. Duffy" the
housewife, was coming back in from her hour of dual looking a bit
pale and concerned :-)

What happened is what we have now; a few holdovers from the "old
school" and a whole lot of the "new breed" of instructor.

The ultimate answer to getting the quality level up in the GA
pilot
community will in my opinion require a whole new look at the way
flight instruction is conducted.

I know from my own personal experience that it is possible to take
an average newbie with the average apprehensive feeling about
flying
and take that newbie through a learning process that replaces the
apprehension with confidence. These newbies can be trained by GOOD
instructors to function not only well, but VERY well in the flying
environment with comfort zones well beyond their initial level of
apprehension found at the initiation of training.

Barring the influx of CFI's who are capable of teaching students
in
this manner, I would project no meaningful changes in the present
GA
environment.



I've had very few nervous students. Only two that really stood out
that i can recall. One was terrfied of stalls and did this
hyperventilating thing, which was really freaky, every time we went
to
do them. He got over it by me demonstrating that the airplane would
sit happily in the stall for ages without the earth coming up to
smite
us. He got over it. Another guy was terrified of the engine failing
and no amount of explaining to him that the idling engine was the
same
as having the engine not running at all made no difference at all to
him, he spent most of every flight half freaked out over the
prospect
of this happening. I finally got so ****ed off with him I just
pulled
the mixture and raised the nose until the prop stopped. The
transformation in him was almost instantaneous.
In retrospect, it was not such a clever thing to do since we were at
about 1,000' and nowhere near an airport! It started up straight
away,
fortunately. That's an incident/accident that would have made
interesting reading.

It worked, though.


Bertie

************************************************** ********************
*
*******

Bertie

I used to shut the engine down in a T-33 to give students an
actuall
air start. Had them talk me through the air start procedure as they
did each step so I could correct them if they were going to screw
up.

Know there was a lot of talking back in baracks at night between my
studebts but they all learned the emergency rocedures as they never
knew if I was going to give them an actual emergency to use the
procedures in.

I talked to some of my students years later and they all said that
what I did in training made them good Fighter Pilots in the
Squadrons.


Good fun, eh?

Did they have hydraulic controls?


Bertie
************************************************** ***********

Elevator and rudder manual control unboosted.

Ailerons had manual connection plus a boost system. Bird could be
flown ok with engine out but ailerons were just a little heavy. You
just didn't crank bird into a steep turn engine out as was slow ro
straighten backout due to rather heavy aileron control.

OK, just wondering if you were able to fly it when gliding! It'd make
the exercise really interesting if you couldn't!


Bertie

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in
:

On Feb 16, 5:30 pm, Benjamin Dover wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote
:
...
Just for the record, and on the off chance that there might just be
one person on Usenet who needs to be informed of this, please be
advised that regardless of what this idiot says and when he uses my
name in his posts; I am in NO way even remotely involved with this
character in any way whatsoever.

Well, that's true. Are we supposed to put AoA meters
on all control surfaces, such as Elevators, Ailerons,
Rudder, Flaps or just the main wing?


And the cluelessness continues.


Dud, have you ever heard of a *stall warning audio
annunciator*?

Jees, I haven't tel us how they work Kenny!


In sims I've installed an AoA meter, it's basically
an aerodynamic curiousity.

It should be obvious that Ken always puts the "S" between
"Ken" and
"Tucker" to emphasize to everyone that he is a total ****HEAD!

Well Mr. BenDover snicker, you seem to have
a curiousity about what's in other peoples asses,
so you're a queer, not that there's anything wrong
with that, but most people wouldn't want to spend
too much time in a cockpit with you, except Bertie,
butt that's a given.

OK, back to aerodynamics


God I love usenet


Bertie