ATC

On Mar 29, 7:07*pm, "F. Baum" wrote:
On Mar 29, 10:42*am, Ed Sharkey wrote:





On Mar 28, 5:16*pm, Jim Logajan wrote:

The poster said these were ATC transmissions, not internal company
communications.

Hi Folks

I'm the guy that dropped the pebble in the pond on this one.

Now there seems to be at least a couple of occasions where the time
delay between the flight first saying they weren't ready and their
still not being ready when the controller called them back was
significant, i.e to my way of thinking much longer than it would have
taken for the crew to tune to ATIS and get the lastest information.
Indeed why would they have pushed back without the ATIS?

My thought was that it must have something to do with the load figures
and the weight/balance calcs. *And that the Tower didn't want the guy
to get to the head of the queue at the hold point and not be certain
he was ready to go.

Ed, Good explination . Ill try to clarify some more . At airports
where gate space is at a premium airliners will often push before the
final paperwork is recieved. The final paperwork consists of the WT &
Bal, flap and trim settings, T.O. power settings for each runway, max
weights for each runway , V speeds, *and WX updates if applicable. It
comes up on the ACARS and then it is printed out. ATC needs to know if
we have the "Numbers" (Final paperwork) . It wouldnt do much good to
send a plane to a runway they are too heavy for. All of this comes
from a load planner, not the dispatcher.
As far as ATIS goes, it gets printed up at the touch of a screen and
it is pretty much assumed that if a crew calls to taxi or push that
they have it. Good luck with the training.
FB- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

FB

Thanks for that. Most interesting.

I guess it gets pretty tense in the cockpit if you're taxying without
"numbers"!

What's ACARS?

Who provides the information they're missing? The company? The
handling agent?

I presume it's 'downlinked' somehow to the on-board flight computer?

Oh, and one more thing.

When the contoller says something like "Give way to company on your
left" what's "company" mean in that context? Does it mean ' aircraft
belonging to the same company as you'?

Training is going well, thanks. Just need to try to find more time to
spend with the books!

Ed

On 2008-03-30, Ed Sharkey wrote:
When the contoller says something like "Give way to company on your
left" what's "company" mean in that context? Does it mean ' aircraft
belonging to the same company as you'?

That's it exactly.

There's a section in the AIM that is based on this knowledge, as well. See
section 4-2-5, on interchange or leased aircraft.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

On Mar 30, 4:07*am, Ed Sharkey wrote:

FB

Thanks for that. *Most interesting.

I guess it gets pretty tense in the cockpit if you're taxying without
"numbers"!

Actually its no biggie. The load planner gets together with the
dispatcher a few hours before a flight and after the fuel load is
determined he looks at the loads (Bookings) and sends a loading
schedule to the ground crew so the plane will be loaded within the CG
range. I have never seen one out of CG range, but on the smaller jets
(737, MD-88) it is possible to be too heavy for some of the runways or
intersections.

What's ACARS?

Aircraft Communication Addressing and Reporting System.


Who provides the information they're missing? *The company? The
handling agent?

Typically we are waiting on the baggage handlers for the final bag/
cargo count.


I presume it's 'downlinked' somehow to the on-board flight computer?

Yes, on to the ACARS and then we print it out. The final paperwork at
an airport like KBOS is several pages long.

FB

On Mar 29, 10:09*pm, Benjamin Dover wrote:
buttman wrote :



On Mar 28, 5:00*am, "Mike Gilmour" wrote:
Listening to Boston ATC at various times the Tower controller asks a
fligh
t
if they 'have got their numbers" (?) or a flight will say they're not
read
y
to proceed because they "don't have their numbers".
What does this mean as it doesnt translate here in the UK?
TIA

I've always heard the phrase used when ATC asks or a pilot responds
regarding whether they have the information broadcasted on a AWOS/ASOS
frequency. When the tower is open, its an ATIS, so theres a letter to
go with it. If the tower is closed, or there is no tower, its just a
continuously updated recording of numbers. Since you can't say "We
have information Bravo", you say "We have the numbers". At KBOS I
doubt the tower closes, so my guess is the controller is using this
term as a colloquialism for "ATIS information"

If the tower is closed, or there is no tower, who are you communicating
"the numbers" to? *And who cares?

The center/approach controllers aren't going to clear you for an
approach until you tell them you have the weather at the airport,
whether the tower is closed or not.

On Mar 29, 9:49*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
buttman wrote :



On Mar 28, 5:00*am, "Mike Gilmour" wrote:
Listening to Boston ATC at various times the Tower controller asks a
fligh
t
if they 'have got their numbers" (?) or a flight will say they're not
read
y
to proceed because they "don't have their numbers".
What does this mean as it doesnt translate here in the UK?
TIA

I've always heard the phrase used when ATC asks or a pilot responds
regarding whether they have the information broadcasted on a AWOS/ASOS
frequency. When the tower is open, its an ATIS, so theres a letter to
go with it. If the tower is closed, or there is no tower, its just a
continuously updated recording of numbers. Since you can't say "We
have information Bravo", you say "We have the numbers". At KBOS I
doubt the tower closes, so my guess is the controller is using this
term as a colloquialism for "ATIS information"

Nope.

Good guess you broadcatedededed there, theough.

Bertie

There is something seriously wrong with you.

buttman wrote in
:

On Mar 29, 10:09*pm, Benjamin Dover wrote:
buttman wrote
innews:86c53833-2e0d-4ce2-84fa-c83801fdb
:



On Mar 28, 5:00*am, "Mike Gilmour" wrote:
Listening to Boston ATC at various times the Tower controller asks
a fligh
t
if they 'have got their numbers" (?) or a flight will say they're
not read
y
to proceed because they "don't have their numbers".
What does this mean as it doesnt translate here in the UK?
TIA

I've always heard the phrase used when ATC asks or a pilot responds
regarding whether they have the information broadcasted on a
AWOS/ASOS frequency. When the tower is open, its an ATIS, so theres
a letter to go with it. If the tower is closed, or there is no
tower, its just a continuously updated recording of numbers. Since
you can't say "We have information Bravo", you say "We have the
numbers". At KBOS I doubt the tower closes, so my guess is the
controller is using this term as a colloquialism for "ATIS
information"

If the tower is closed, or there is no tower, who are you
communicating "the numbers" to? *And who cares?

The center/approach controllers aren't going to clear you for an
approach until you tell them you have the weather at the airport,
whether the tower is closed or not.

Not if you're VFR. Where will you get the numbers going VFR into a field
with no tower (or closed tower) and no ATIS/ASOS? ATC doesn't have them.

buttman wrote in
:

On Mar 29, 9:49*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
buttman wrote
innews:86c53833-2e0d-4ce2-84fa-c83801fdb
:



On Mar 28, 5:00*am, "Mike Gilmour" wrote:
Listening to Boston ATC at various times the Tower controller asks
a fligh
t
if they 'have got their numbers" (?) or a flight will say they're
not read
y
to proceed because they "don't have their numbers".
What does this mean as it doesnt translate here in the UK?
TIA

I've always heard the phrase used when ATC asks or a pilot responds
regarding whether they have the information broadcasted on a
AWOS/ASOS frequency. When the tower is open, its an ATIS, so theres
a letter to go with it. If the tower is closed, or there is no
tower, its just a continuously updated recording of numbers. Since
you can't say "We have information Bravo", you say "We have the
numbers". At KBOS I doubt the tower closes, so my guess is the
controller is using this term as a colloquialism for "ATIS
information"

Nope.

Good guess you broadcatedededed there, theough.

Bertie

There is something seriously wrong with you.



Mebbe, mebbe not. At least i know what I'm talkng about, though.

Wheras you do not.

Bertie

buttman wrote in
:

On Mar 29, 10:09*pm, Benjamin Dover wrote:
buttman wrote
innews:86c53833-2e0d-4ce2-84fa-c83801fdb
:



On Mar 28, 5:00*am, "Mike Gilmour" wrote:
Listening to Boston ATC at various times the Tower controller asks
a fligh
t
if they 'have got their numbers" (?) or a flight will say they're
not read
y
to proceed because they "don't have their numbers".
What does this mean as it doesnt translate here in the UK?
TIA

I've always heard the phrase used when ATC asks or a pilot responds
regarding whether they have the information broadcasted on a
AWOS/ASOS frequency. When the tower is open, its an ATIS, so theres
a letter to go with it. If the tower is closed, or there is no
tower, its just a continuously updated recording of numbers. Since
you can't say "We have information Bravo", you say "We have the
numbers". At KBOS I doubt the tower closes, so my guess is the
controller is using this term as a colloquialism for "ATIS
information"

If the tower is closed, or there is no tower, who are you
communicating "the numbers" to? *And who cares?

The center/approach controllers aren't going to clear you for an
approach until you tell them you have the weather at the airport,
whether the tower is closed or not.

Good grief, you're a compleat.. ......... idiot.


Bertie

On Mar 31, 10:14*am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
buttman wrote :





On Mar 29, 10:09*pm, Benjamin Dover wrote:
buttman wrote
innews:86c53833-2e0d-4ce2-84fa-c83801fdb
:

On Mar 28, 5:00*am, "Mike Gilmour" wrote:
Listening to Boston ATC at various times the Tower controller asks
a fligh
t
if they 'have got their numbers" (?) or a flight will say they're
not read
y
to proceed because they "don't have their numbers".
What does this mean as it doesnt translate here in the UK?
TIA

I've always heard the phrase used when ATC asks or a pilot responds
regarding whether they have the information broadcasted on a
AWOS/ASOS frequency. When the tower is open, its an ATIS, so theres
a letter to go with it. If the tower is closed, or there is no
tower, its just a continuously updated recording of numbers. Since
you can't say "We have information Bravo", you say "We have the
numbers". At KBOS I doubt the tower closes, so my guess is the
controller is using this term as a colloquialism for "ATIS
information"

If the tower is closed, or there is no tower, who are you
communicating "the numbers" to? *And who cares?

The center/approach controllers aren't going to clear you for an
approach until you tell them you have the weather at the airport,
whether the tower is closed or not.

Good grief, you're a compleat.. ......... idiot.

Bertie- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well...

Good to know that the art of rational discourse is not yet dead in the
Land of the Free!

Guys, how does this sort of thing help promote the cause of GA flying?

Ed

On Mar 31, 1:10 am, buttman wrote:

The center/approach controllers aren't going to clear you for an
approach until you tell them you have the weather at the airport,
whether the tower is closed or not.


There's no provision for denying approach clearance to aircraft that
have not reported having the weather. Aircraft that have not reported
receiving the weather are to be issued the weather.