Feds Want to Equipe Gliders With Transponders and Radios

On May 3, 4:15*am, wrote:
Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:





wrote:
Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Gig 601Xl Builder" wrote in message
news:jqednZIj4dsLq4fVnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d@supernews .com...
Are you asking about stoke or if it is a problem to ATC?

I'm asking how TSA's view of things is a problem to ATC.

If national security, a DHS issue, overlaps ATC, a DOT issue, don't
count on DOT winning the argument.

Yes one must concider the potential horror of fleets of all fiberglass
gliders with no transponders coming across the Atlantic filled with
terrorists and nuclear bombs.

I didn't imply that there was such a threat. This as most conversations
with Mr. McNicoll is an offshoot of the original conversation. Because
he made some comment that while not really wrong isn't how the real
world works.

Didn't say you did.

My point is that in a sane world (big leap of faith there) DHS wouldn't
have any interest in gliders as one would be hard pressed to come up
with a scenario involving national security and a glider.


Not hard at all.
It flies, it can carry a bomb and explosives. It is cheap and readily
available.

Cheers

"Gig 601Xl Builder" wrote in message
m...
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Gig 601Xl Builder" wrote in message
m...
TSA is in DHS, DHS does not dictate ATC policy.
No the POTUS does and he probably listens to DHS more than DOT.


What ATC policies have been dictated by the POTUS? Why would the POTUS
rely on DHS for ATC policy over DOT? Would he rely on DOT over DHS on
security matters?

And policy promulgated by DOT, DHS, DOD, is dictated by the POTUS.

What ATC policies have been promulgated by DOT, DHS, or DOD?



In most cases it is actually dictated by people he selects to handle those
departments but the final authority rests on the desk of the POTUS.


What ATC policies have been promulgated by the secretaries of DOT, DHS, or
DOD?



As for your other two questions think overlap.


Why can't you just answer the questions?

Alan wrote:

Other factors include the output voltage under load at discharge -- a
lead acid battery is rated to 10.2 to 10.5 volts for a "12 volt" battery
at discharge.

Powersonic uses 10.5 volts for 5 to 20 hour discharge rates.

Unfortunately, most 12 volt radios and devices are designed
for a charging electrical system, with a voltage of about 14 volts.

Most panel mounted radios (definitely for Dittel and Becker radios)
bought new in the last 20 years (and even some older ones) meet the
current requirements to function properly to 10.5 volts, and at even
lower voltages, but with reduced power output. "Very old" radios likely
will have problems at 10.5 volts. I have no idea what the percentage of
"old" and "new" are.

When
the battery is down to 75% of the expected voltage for the radio, not all
of them work. I have had aircraft radios that would not transmit below
about 11.5 volts, at which point the battery would be still above 50% charged.

Powersonic shows it's batteries have only 25% capacity left at 11.5
volts. I haven't checked other brands, but believe they are the same for
the batteries we use in our gliders.

Lead acid batteries are normally rated for capacity at a 20 hour rate of
discharge. A 7 AH battery would deliver 7000 / 20 = 350 mA for 20 hours.
Faster discharge rates result in less capacity being available (look up
Peukerts exponent for more details). Discharging faster than that, reduces
the amp-hour capacity of the battery.

At a current drain of 700 ma (10 hour rate) that you might have with
transponder, radio, etc, Powersonic shows a capacity of 90% of the 20
hour rate. That's not a show-stopper, but worth taking into account.

Lead acid batteries have less capacity when cold. One guide suggests that
for every 10 degrees centigrade below room temperature, you should add 10%
to the battery capacity needed. High altitude flight tends to get up into
cold places.

This corresponds with the Powersonic chart, so at -10C (15F), you have a
30% loss of capacity. For winter flying, and spring or fall flying in
places where you can climb to, say, 10,000' agl, it's an important
factor. Especially so, when you know your encoder will likely be using
it's heater, adding 50-150 milliamps to your current drain.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

"Eric Greenwell" wrote
This corresponds with the Powersonic chart, so at -10C (15F), you have a 30%
loss of capacity. For winter flying, and spring or fall flying in places where
you can climb to, say, 10,000' agl, it's an important factor. Especially so,
when you know your encoder will likely be using it's heater, adding 50-150
milliamps to your current drain.

Put a insulated cover around the battery, and the heat of discharge will keep
it warm and the capacity up, unless it is seriously freakin' cold.
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:

"Eric Greenwell" wrote
This corresponds with the Powersonic chart, so at -10C (15F), you have
a 30% loss of capacity. For winter flying, and spring or fall flying
in places where you can climb to, say, 10,000' agl, it's an important
factor. Especially so, when you know your encoder will likely be using
it's heater, adding 50-150 milliamps to your current drain.

Put a insulated cover around the battery, and the heat of discharge will
keep it warm and the capacity up, unless it is seriously freakin' cold.

Insulating it will keep if from cooling off as quickly, but I'm
skeptical about the amount of self-heating. Do you know how much it is,
or where I can find a reference to it that applies to the batteries we
us? Insulating my battery is difficult due to it's location, so I'd like
to know it's worth the effort before attempting it.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

In article ,
WingFlaps wrote:

How slow does a target need to be to be undisplayed -typically? I
would have thought that even a glider is fast (45 knots) compared to
usual clutter.

Don't forget that it's the radial velocity that is detected by skin paint.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

On May 4, 8:37*am, Bob Noel
wrote:
In article ,

*WingFlaps wrote:
How slow does a target need to be to be undisplayed -typically? I
would have thought that even a glider is fast (45 knots) compared to
usual clutter.

Don't forget that it's the radial velocity that is detected by skin paint.



Aha, someone who understands Dopplewho knows!. data from the secondary
sites can fix that problem.

Cheers

In rec.aviation.piloting WingFlaps wrote:
On May 4, 8:37?am, Bob Noel
wrote:
In article ,

?WingFlaps wrote:
How slow does a target need to be to be undisplayed -typically? I
would have thought that even a glider is fast (45 knots) compared to
usual clutter.

Don't forget that it's the radial velocity that is detected by skin paint.



Aha, someone who understands Dopplewho knows!. data from the secondary
sites can fix that problem.

The FAA radars are what they are.

You can arm wave forever about what they could be, but that isn't going
to change them.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Sat, 03 May 2008 23:15:03 GMT, wrote in
:



The FAA radars are what they are.

You can arm wave forever about what they could be, but that isn't going
to change them.

But decommissioning them, as part of the ADS-B implementation, will
make them moot.

Larry Dighera wrote:

On Sat, 03 May 2008 23:15:03 GMT, wrote in
:



The FAA radars are what they are.

You can arm wave forever about what they could be, but that isn't going
to change them.

But decommissioning them, as part of the ADS-B implementation, will
make them moot.

What is being lost? Primary radar is making a comeback after 2001, not
going away.