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#11
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Getting an IFR Clearance
"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
... writes: Mx doesn't know the IFR system IN THE REAL WORLD, only VATSIM and I'd hate for this group get polluted like RAS and RAP. What are the relevant differences? And what makes you think that I don't know the IFR system of the real world? It's not top secret, after all. You don't know the IFR system of the real world because you obviously have no experience with it. If you can't understand the difference between knowledge and experience, there's really no point in evaluating your input because it would be like discussing lovemaking with someone who had only read a book on the subject or had only participated online (which is a strong possibility in your case also). |
#12
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Getting an IFR Clearance
On Sep 25, 3:50*pm, "Mike" nospam@ microsoft.com wrote:
because it would be like discussing lovemaking with someone who had only read a book on the subject or had only participated online (which is a strong possibility in your case also). Unfortunately Mike, he has been told this time over time. Let's not feed into it :-) |
#13
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Getting an IFR Clearance
wrote in message
... On Sep 25, 3:50 pm, "Mike" nospam@ microsoft.com wrote: because it would be like discussing lovemaking with someone who had only read a book on the subject or had only participated online (which is a strong possibility in your case also). Unfortunately Mike, he has been told this time over time. Let's not feed into it :-) And yet it still hasn't lost its novelty yet. |
#14
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Getting an IFR Clearance
Mike writes:
You don't know the IFR system of the real world because you obviously have no experience with it. I do know the IFR system of the real world, since I've studied it. You don't learn IFR by trial and error. You learn it by studying, and a great deal of that is book study. |
#15
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Getting an IFR Clearance
On Sep 25, 5:43*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
I do know the IFR system of the real world, since I've studied it. You don't learn IFR by trial and error. *You learn it by studying, and a great deal of that is book study. For the one and few remaining groups that still have it's sanity, PLEASE disregard Mx postings! The above response is off topic for the original thread question and detracts from Kobra's original question regarding getting an IFR clearance. Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
#16
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Getting an IFR Clearance
wrote in message
... On Sep 25, 5:43 pm, Mxsmanic wrote: I do know the IFR system of the real world, since I've studied it. You don't learn IFR by trial and error. You learn it by studying, and a great deal of that is book study. For the one and few remaining groups that still have it's sanity, PLEASE disregard Mx postings! The above response is off topic for the original thread question and detracts from Kobra's original question regarding getting an IFR clearance. Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why don't you just answer his question? It's a great opportunity to build your writing, composition and debating skills. The source doesn't matter. If you can't argue the point, YOU LOSE! If you don't want to play, SHUT UP! I always like the statement, "Lead, Follow or Get out of the way", that fosters progression, just don't hinder. -- Regards, Bob F. |
#17
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Getting an IFR Clearance
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#18
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Getting an IFR Clearance
"Kobra" wrote in message
. .. I said to my passenger, "we're gonna take off VFR and fly the filed route at 4,500 feet and then request opening the IFR flight plan in the air. After I said this I thought to myself, I bet this move will tick-off the controller and he'll end up giving me some random circuitous vectors just to show me who's boss. Sure enough as soon as I got leveled off on the first airway (V16) I called approach and requested my IFR flight plan be activated. The response was, "...I can't activate you're flight plan unless you fly 5 miles northeast..." Of course I was headed southwest. I turned around and flew about 8 miles before I again asked for my plan to be opened. I was told to standby and after another 2 minutes finally got my plan activated. Now, my question is: If I wasn't in his airspace (which I think I was) couldn't he have just told me to continue and contact Atlantic City approach to open my plan? Do you think I was being "paid back" for circumventing ATC's authority? I sincerely doubt you were being "paid back" in any way. McGuire Approach is a USAF facility and USAF facilities simply don't operate that way. Hold you on the ground because their automation or other equipment isn't operating at 100% or their internal SOP is so cumbersome that it takes that long to coordinate a release or they can't get any cooperation from an adjacent facility? Happens all the time. Turn you back into their airspace so they can do the required IFR coordination and complete a handoff before you enter the next controller's airspace? And maybe even think they're doing you a favor by getting your IFR clearance going now instead of leaving you VFR and passing the buck to the next facility? A distinct possibility. Take you on the scenic route because they couldn't think of a better more expeditious way? Sure. Vector you halfway over creation because their vectoring skills need work? You bet. But turn you around just to show you "who's the boss?" Not likely. |
#19
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Getting an IFR Clearance
"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
... Mike writes: You don't know the IFR system of the real world because you obviously have no experience with it. I do know the IFR system of the real world, since I've studied it. You don't learn IFR by trial and error. You learn it by studying, and a great deal of that is book study. It's really a simple equation. 1)Knowledge x 2)Experience = 3)Wisdom Care to guess what something times zero equals, Anthony? Are we getting through yet? tap, tap, tap Pull out your fingers and your toes and count how many people on any aviation forums that think you know your ass from a crack. We'll all wait while you count them up. |
#20
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Getting an IFR Clearance
"KP" wrote in message
... "Kobra" wrote in message . .. I said to my passenger, "we're gonna take off VFR and fly the filed route at 4,500 feet and then request opening the IFR flight plan in the air. After I said this I thought to myself, I bet this move will tick-off the controller and he'll end up giving me some random circuitous vectors just to show me who's boss. Sure enough as soon as I got leveled off on the first airway (V16) I called approach and requested my IFR flight plan be activated. The response was, "...I can't activate you're flight plan unless you fly 5 miles northeast..." Of course I was headed southwest. I turned around and flew about 8 miles before I again asked for my plan to be opened. I was told to standby and after another 2 minutes finally got my plan activated. Now, my question is: If I wasn't in his airspace (which I think I was) couldn't he have just told me to continue and contact Atlantic City approach to open my plan? Do you think I was being "paid back" for circumventing ATC's authority? I sincerely doubt you were being "paid back" in any way. McGuire Approach is a USAF facility and USAF facilities simply don't operate that way. I've worked in both USAF and FAA ATC facilities and there's really little difference in that regard. All it takes is one who thinks he's God's gift to aviation, and there's always more than one in every RAPCON or TRACON. I would agree that the chances are quite slim and there's probably a much more likely reason, but I can't agree that USAF facilities "simply don't operate that way" because I've seen it happen. The military is no more immune from abuse of authority than anyone else. |
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