Rust removal?

On Feb 26, 9:42*am, "noel.wade" wrote:
Kept in a set of PVC tubes with
well-greased felt inside so that they "self lubricate" every time I
pull them out or put them back in the holders.

If you mean that you put the "self lubricated" pins stright into the
spars I think that's a really bad idea!

I never assemble without completely cleaning the main spar pins and
the spar bushings and lubricating them with fresh grease. Any other
way risks the bushings and pins being scratched by accumulated dirt.
The lift pins and the horizontal stab pins get the same treatment.

I fly in a very dusty environment. I might be less picky if it was
clean.


Andy

On Feb 26, 11:50*am, Andy wrote:

I fly in a very dusty environment. *I might be less picky if it was
clean.

Andy -

My spar bushings definitely get cleaned regularly. The pins are
either in the wing or in the "holders" (they get pulled from the wing
and go straight into the tube) - so they are not exposed to the air
(dirt) for any length of time. The felt lining also acts as a "wiper"
as they go in and come out. Finally, I fly near Seattle for about
half the year - and the rain keeps the dust out of the air up
here. ;-)

Thanks, take care,

--Noel

On Feb 26, 11:50*am, Andy wrote:
On Feb 26, 9:42*am, "noel.wade" wrote:

Kept in a set of PVC tubes with
well-greased felt inside so that they "self lubricate" every time I
pull them out or put them back in the holders.

If you mean that you put the "self lubricated" pins stright into the
spars I think that's a really bad idea!


You know, I don't think I will take the time to share a few things I
have picked up over the last 35 years of repairing these glass toys.
Ras has a wide range of posters, some have vast experience and
knowledge, others share their ignorance, suspicions, rumors and
incredible lack of common sense. We have posters that think knocking
the rust off lift fittings will somehow change the wing incidence or
make the wings loose! Another thinks storing the main wing pins in a
greased holder will somehow gouge the pins when the greased holder
protects them from just that.
So long,
JJ

On Feb 26, 10:42*am, "noel.wade" wrote:
JJ -

My fault, I wasn't clear enough - I meant the _other_ "lift-pins". My
spar pins are exactly as you describe: Kept in a set of PVC tubes with
well-greased felt inside so that they "self lubricate" every time I
pull them out or put them back in the holders.

I was referring to the alignment pins on each side of the fuselage
that plug into the root rib sockets and ensure the wing is at its
proper angle of incidence relative to the fuselage. *They're a lot
smaller and I don't think I want "variable incidence" wings as I fly
around... ;-)

Thanks,

--Noel

Noel, I don't think those are alignment pins, those are the studs the
fuse hangs from. They do align things of course but I was the longest
text realizing that those little studs are the weight bearing points.

I'm going to have to come up with a way to better signify when I'm
making a sarcastic or tongue-in-cheek comment...

JJ - C'mon you gotta admit that if you tweaked those pins/studs, you
could get the wing to fly at a different angle of incidence! ;-) For
the record, I appreciate all your info and tips.

Brian - I am aware of what the "studs" do - which is why I've always
heard them referred to as "lift pins" (they "lift" the fuselage along
with the wing)... but JJ's response sounded like he was talking about
the big pins that we use to fasten the spar roots to one another so
that the spar forces are transmitted through from one wing to the
other. So I deliberately described them using "alternate" means. :-P

OK, maybe my efforts fell flat; but there were good intentions!

--Noel

On Feb 26, 6:07*pm, wrote:
On Feb 26, 11:50*am, Andy wrote:

On Feb 26, 9:42*am, "noel.wade" wrote:

Kept in a set of PVC tubes with
well-greased felt inside so that they "self lubricate" every time I
pull them out or put them back in the holders.

If you mean that you put the "self lubricated" pins stright into the
spars I think that's a really bad idea!

You know, I don't think I will take the time to share a few things I
have picked up over the last 35 years of repairing these glass toys.
Ras has a wide range of posters, some have vast experience and
knowledge, others share their ignorance, suspicions, rumors and
incredible lack of common sense. We have posters that think knocking
the rust off lift fittings will somehow change the wing incidence or
make the wings loose! Another thinks storing the main wing pins in a
greased holder will somehow gouge the pins when the greased holder
protects them from just that.
So long,
JJ

JJ,

Please please please don't stop posting. I have a special folder of
"Tips from JJ" that I refer to all the time. Just the other day I was
looking at blending a repair and went back to your post from about 6
months back.

You need to write a book one of these days. You could make millions
(of pennies, if you're lucky).

Regards,
P3

On Feb 26, 4:19*pm, Papa3 wrote:
On Feb 26, 6:07*pm, wrote:





On Feb 26, 11:50*am, Andy wrote:

On Feb 26, 9:42*am, "noel.wade" wrote:

Kept in a set of PVC tubes with
well-greased felt inside so that they "self lubricate" every time I
pull them out or put them back in the holders.

If you mean that you put the "self lubricated" pins stright into the
spars I think that's a really bad idea!

You know, I don't think I will take the time to share a few things I
have picked up over the last 35 years of repairing these glass toys.
Ras has a wide range of posters, some have vast experience and
knowledge, others share their ignorance, suspicions, rumors and
incredible lack of common sense. We have posters that think knocking
the rust off lift fittings will somehow change the wing incidence or
make the wings loose! Another thinks storing the main wing pins in a
greased holder will somehow gouge the pins when the greased holder
protects them from just that.
So long,
JJ

JJ,

Please please please don't stop posting. *I have a special folder of
"Tips from JJ" that I refer to all the time. *Just the other day I was
looking at blending a repair and went back to your post from about 6
months back.

You need to write a book one of these days. *You could make millions
(of pennies, if you're lucky).

Regards,
P3- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Polyprime.....................need I say more?

Brad

On Feb 26, 4:07*pm, wrote:
Another thinks storing the main wing pins in a
greased holder will somehow gouge the pins when the greased holder
protects them from just that.

Any pin storage system that does not clean the pins before each
insertion has the risk of dirt transfer. The pins can pick up dirt
while they are installed in the spars both at the far end and at the
gap between the spars. Any dirt picked up here may be transferred to
grease in the storage tubes.

Whether that is a problem is left to the individual owner to decide.
Since I have found grit in my storage tubes more than once I'll
continue to clean my pins and use fresh grease before every insertion.

Andy

noel.wade wrote:
On Feb 26, 11:50 am, Andy wrote:

I fly in a very dusty environment. I might be less picky if it was
clean.

Andy -

My spar bushings definitely get cleaned regularly. The pins are
either in the wing or in the "holders" (they get pulled from the wing
and go straight into the tube) - so they are not exposed to the air
(dirt) for any length of time. The felt lining also acts as a "wiper"
as they go in and come out. Finally, I fly near Seattle for about
half the year - and the rain keeps the dust out of the air up
here. ;-)

Noel,

Did you store your glider-in-trailer outside for the winter?

I have noticed, and I believe JJ has commented, that winter storing the
glider-in-trailer inside (such as in a heated or unheated pole barn or
whatever) makes a big difference in preventing surface rust.

Has anyone had luck storing their glider-in-trailer outside in a winter
climate like Washington state or Michigan? If so, did you do anything
special (sealing the trailer? other?)?

Regards,

-Doug

On Feb 26, 5:32*am, JJ Sinclair wrote:
Hey JJ - any reason to be concerned about the tightness of the fit of
the pins in the bushings? *I'd think you wouldn't want a shimmy in
flight. Is there any risk of that?

Andy

Some will experience what is known as the "clunk". That is the sound
you may hear when rolling into a thermal. It is the fuselage sliding
in the lift fittings and going "clunk". If you hear this you need at
least a 20 thousands shim on one aft lift fitting, determine which one
by measuring from the TE probe on the fin with a steel tape to a
common point on each wing, say the aileron cut-out. Don't be surprised
to find your prize possession is off by close to an inch! This will
tell you where to epoxy the shim onto one of the aft lift fittings.
Some will find their lift fittings are too tight which makes getting
the wing onto the lift fittings a chore. Clean the fittings and scrub
them with magic-marker, then put it together again. Then remove the
wing and observe the magic-marked pins. The shinny spots show the
interference fit areas. My ship showed a problem on the front end of
the forward lift fitting and the back end of the aft lift fitting. It
took months of working these areas down with emery cloth every time I
flew to finally get the wing to slide on easily. Believe me you don't
remove much steel with sandpaper!
JJ

I guess I was wondering what happens if, due to sanding, the lift pins
end up smaller in diameter than the bushings. Then it seems to me that
no matter how much you shim you could end up with a clunker since the
distance between opposing lift fittings is fixed by the main pins so
you can't really push the wings further to get the (usually tapered)
lift pins to snugly engage with the bushings all the way around the
circumference.

If I recall correctly my 1980-vintage LS-4 was put together such that
you could pull straight up on the trailing edge of the wing right near
the root and feel the lift pin "clunk" from resting on the bottom of
the bushing to the top. It was only a fraction of an inch, but you
could feel it. The glider was a mix of wings and fuse from two
different S/Ns so this could also just be rigging rather than wear,
but it's what raised the question in my mind.

9B