How do I legallly install winglets on a standard airworthiness certificate?

A friend in my club built a pair of winglets for his Standard Cirrus.
His glider is expirmental, mine is not. The total cost for him was
just a hundred dollars for supplies, and some free guidance from a
local IA/AP. The finished product looks fantastic! The mold came
from an American Spirit, which I believe is a copy of the Ventus. And
the result is that his handling has improved quite a bit. He did do
some adjustments on the toe-out angle to fine tune it which
supposively helped.

I would like to do the same thing with mine using the exact same
molds. My Cirrus is a standard airworthiness certificate. If I were
to do the factory winglet or the Maughmer winglet, the cost is between
3,000-5,000 when it's all said and done. So that being said, this
option, looks very appealing.

Has anyone in this group dealt with the same sort of deal? I would be
willing to change my standard airworthiness certificate over to an
expiremental if that is the best solution. Any guidance is much
appreciated.

Thanks,
Scott

PS Happy Thanksgiving.

On 11-20-2010 16:39, Scott Alexander wrote:
A friend in my club built a pair of winglets for his Standard Cirrus.
His glider is expirmental, mine is not. The total cost for him was
just a hundred dollars for supplies, and some free guidance from a
local IA/AP. The finished product looks fantastic! The mold came
from an American Spirit, which I believe is a copy of the Ventus. And
the result is that his handling has improved quite a bit. He did do
some adjustments on the toe-out angle to fine tune it which
supposively helped.

I would like to do the same thing with mine using the exact same
molds. My Cirrus is a standard airworthiness certificate. If I were
to do the factory winglet or the Maughmer winglet, the cost is between
3,000-5,000 when it's all said and done. So that being said, this
option, looks very appealing.

Has anyone in this group dealt with the same sort of deal? I would be
willing to change my standard airworthiness certificate over to an
expiremental if that is the best solution. Any guidance is much
appreciated.

Thanks,
Scott

PS Happy Thanksgiving.

Here in the USA, it doesn't appear possible to go from certified to
experimental (amateur built). You can possibly get it into special
experimental (R&D perhaps), but you will be limited on what types of
flights you may use it for.

http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert...rt/experiment/

more info...

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text... 1.3.9.8.11.14

On Nov 20, 8:39*am, Scott Alexander
wrote:
A friend in my club built a pair of winglets for his Standard Cirrus.
His glider is expirmental, mine is not. *The total cost for him was
just a hundred dollars for supplies, and some free guidance from a
local IA/AP. *The finished product looks fantastic! *The mold came
from an American Spirit, which I believe is a copy of the Ventus. *And
the result is that his handling has improved quite a bit. *He did do
some adjustments on the toe-out angle to fine tune it which
supposively helped.

I would like to do the same thing with mine using the exact same
molds. *My Cirrus is a standard airworthiness certificate. *If I were
to do the factory winglet or the Maughmer winglet, the cost is between
3,000-5,000 when it's all said and done. *So that being said, this
option, looks very appealing.

Has anyone in this group dealt with the same sort of deal? *I would be
willing to change my standard airworthiness certificate over to an
expiremental if that is the best solution. *Any guidance is much
appreciated.

Thanks,
Scott

PS Happy Thanksgiving.

None of these winglets appear to have STCs so the installation in a
type certificated glider will be via 337/field approval (I doubt
you'll find an A&P who would claim adding a winglet is a "minor
alteration" although there could be corner cases...). Since likely you
need an A&P/IA to file a 337 and work with your local FSDO that is
where I'd start. OTOH if you can get a pair of winglets for $3k out
the door, all approved properly, then I'd take that route.

Darryl

On Nov 20, 11:13*am, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Nov 20, 8:39*am, Scott Alexander
wrote:





A friend in my club built a pair of winglets for his Standard Cirrus.
His glider is expirmental, mine is not. *The total cost for him was
just a hundred dollars for supplies, and some free guidance from a
local IA/AP. *The finished product looks fantastic! *The mold came
from an American Spirit, which I believe is a copy of the Ventus. *And
the result is that his handling has improved quite a bit. *He did do
some adjustments on the toe-out angle to fine tune it which
supposively helped.

I would like to do the same thing with mine using the exact same
molds. *My Cirrus is a standard airworthiness certificate. *If I were
to do the factory winglet or the Maughmer winglet, the cost is between
3,000-5,000 when it's all said and done. *So that being said, this
option, looks very appealing.

Has anyone in this group dealt with the same sort of deal? *I would be
willing to change my standard airworthiness certificate over to an
expiremental if that is the best solution. *Any guidance is much
appreciated.

Thanks,
Scott

PS Happy Thanksgiving.

None of these winglets appear to have STCs so the installation in a
type certificated glider will be via 337/field approval (I doubt
you'll find an A&P who would claim adding a winglet is a "minor
alteration" although there could be corner cases...). Since likely you
need an A&P/IA to file a 337 and work with your local FSDO that is
where I'd start. OTOH if you can get a pair of winglets for $3k out
the door, all approved *properly, then I'd take that route.

Darryl- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Scott,
Check with your FSDO on going from standard to experimental
(exhibition & racing). I have done this twice. They will sak why and
the reason is to add winglets that aren't available from the factory
on your model sailplane.
JJ

Scott,

The 337 form can be sent in before the work begins. This allows for
approval/disapproval before a saw is taken to the airplane. I imagine
you will have to hire a DER (designated engineering representative) to
do an engineering analysis to accompany the 337. Harold Kasola is
very easy to work with and has Kasola Engineering in Albany, GA. A
call to him would be worth the effort. Having just certified a club
glider in experimental (last week), I can tell you it took a few days
and a trip to the FSDO.

On 11-21-2010 13:49, lanebush wrote:
Scott,

The 337 form can be sent in before the work begins. This allows for
approval/disapproval before a saw is taken to the airplane. I imagine
you will have to hire a DER (designated engineering representative) to
do an engineering analysis to accompany the 337. Harold Kasola is
very easy to work with and has Kasola Engineering in Albany, GA. A
call to him would be worth the effort. Having just certified a club
glider in experimental (last week), I can tell you it took a few days
and a trip to the FSDO.

Cool! I would have thought a 337 would allow the glider to remain in
the standard airworthiness class, if approved. On powered aircraft, I
don't recall a 337 as changing them to experimental...and I would think
it would be preferable to keep the glider in the standard class or it
would have some sort of flight restrictions, wouldn't it?

Scott

I don't recall a 337 as changing them to experimental...

337 has nothing to do with EXP/Std reg changeover. It is the number of
the form that stands for "major repair or alteration" and is typically
accompanied by a new weight and balance when major repairs
(reattaching a tailboom for instance) or alterations (like winglets),
although may not be necessarily in every case.

My SZD59 is EXP reg, but I still went the 337 route when I modded my
stock mechanical brakes to a hydraulic Cleveland setup. Didn't need
the w&b for this job, since the part total was within 1.5lbs of the
old setup and that is all predominantly on CofG, but I didn't trust my
old one and wanted to put some weight in the tail, so a fresh w&b was
useful to me to determine how much...

And why exactly do you want to keep the std reg? Do you use it in a
commercial capacity? (obviously not since it has 1 seat...) Exp rating
allows you a lot more leeway with *legally getting your ship/cockpit
dialed in etc. Work that falls somewhere between changing a tire and
needing a 337 still needs to be signed off by an A&P, but a 337 needs
an A&I and is much more involved. Std means anything beyond changing a
tire/simple maintenance level work has to be farmed out to an A&P,
regardless of your skills.

-Paul

On 11-21-2010 16:42, sisu1a wrote:
I don't recall a 337 as changing them to experimental...

337 has nothing to do with EXP/Std reg changeover. It is the number of
the form that stands for "major repair or alteration" and is typically
accompanied by a new weight and balance when major repairs
(reattaching a tailboom for instance) or alterations (like winglets),
although may not be necessarily in every case.

My SZD59 is EXP reg, but I still went the 337 route when I modded my
stock mechanical brakes to a hydraulic Cleveland setup. Didn't need
the w&b for this job, since the part total was within 1.5lbs of the
old setup and that is all predominantly on CofG, but I didn't trust my
old one and wanted to put some weight in the tail, so a fresh w&b was
useful to me to determine how much...

And why exactly do you want to keep the std reg? Do you use it in a
commercial capacity? (obviously not since it has 1 seat...) Exp rating
allows you a lot more leeway with *legally getting your ship/cockpit
dialed in etc. Work that falls somewhere between changing a tire and
needing a 337 still needs to be signed off by an A&P, but a 337 needs
an A&I and is much more involved. Std means anything beyond changing a
tire/simple maintenance level work has to be farmed out to an A&P,
regardless of your skills.

-Paul

Actually, I am not the one who started the thread about going into the
experimental category. The reason "I" would stay in the standard
category is to avoid any restrictions that may come with the
experimental category, such as for exhibition only, etc. I'm pretty
sure going to experimental would place various restrictions on the
flying of the aircraft. Also, going to an experimental certificate
won't eliminate the need for A&P inspections/sign offs. As far as I
know, only people with repairman certificates can sign off work on an
experimental "AMATEUR BUILT" aircraft and then only if they built a
majority of the aircraft. Just putting winglets on a certified bird
would not be a basis to get a repairman's certificate...

On Nov 21, 10:12*am, Scott wrote:
On 11-21-2010 16:42, sisu1a wrote:





* *I don't recall a 337 as changing them to experimental...

337 has nothing to do with EXP/Std reg changeover. It is the number of
the form that stands for "major repair or alteration" and is typically
accompanied by a new weight and balance when major repairs
(reattaching a tailboom for instance) or alterations (like winglets),
although may not be necessarily in every case.

My SZD59 is EXP reg, but I still went the 337 route when I modded my
stock mechanical brakes to a hydraulic Cleveland setup. Didn't need
the w&b for this job, since the part total was within 1.5lbs of the
old setup and that is all predominantly on CofG, but I didn't trust my
old one and wanted to put some weight in the tail, so a fresh w&b was
useful to me to determine how much...

And why exactly do you want to keep the std reg? Do you use it in a
commercial capacity? (obviously not since it has 1 seat...) Exp rating
allows you a lot more leeway with *legally getting your ship/cockpit
dialed in etc. Work that falls somewhere between changing a tire and
needing a 337 still needs to be signed off by an A&P, but a 337 needs
an A&I and is much more involved. Std means anything beyond changing a
tire/simple maintenance level work has to be farmed out to an A&P,
regardless of your skills.

-Paul

Actually, I am not the one who started the thread about going into the
experimental category. *The reason "I" would stay in the standard
category is to avoid any restrictions that may come with the
experimental category, such as for exhibition only, etc. *I'm pretty
sure going to experimental would place various restrictions on the
flying of the aircraft. *Also, going to an experimental certificate
won't eliminate the need for A&P inspections/sign offs. *As far as I
know, only people with repairman certificates can sign off work on an
experimental "AMATEUR BUILT" aircraft and then only if they built a
majority of the aircraft. *Just putting winglets on a certified bird
would not be a basis to get a repairman's certificate...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Scott,
Any A&P can annual an Experimental or Experimental Exhibition
aircraft.
This is a lot easier formany people.

Dan
WO

On Nov 20, 8:39*am, Scott Alexander
wrote:
A friend in my club built a pair of winglets for his Standard Cirrus.
His glider is expirmental, mine is not. *The total cost for him was
just a hundred dollars for supplies, and some free guidance from a
local IA/AP. *The finished product looks fantastic! *The mold came
from an American Spirit, which I believe is a copy of the Ventus. *And
the result is that his handling has improved quite a bit. *He did do
some adjustments on the toe-out angle to fine tune it which
supposively helped.

I would like to do the same thing with mine using the exact same
molds. *My Cirrus is a standard airworthiness certificate. *If I were
to do the factory winglet or the Maughmer winglet, the cost is between
3,000-5,000 when it's all said and done. *So that being said, this
option, looks very appealing.

Has anyone in this group dealt with the same sort of deal? *I would be
willing to change my standard airworthiness certificate over to an
expiremental if that is the best solution. *Any guidance is much
appreciated.

Thanks,
Scott

PS Happy Thanksgiving.

Hi,

I'm curious, what kind of testing did your friend do to determine the
tow angle needed tweaking?

thanks,
Brad