How do I legallly install winglets on a standard airworthiness certificate?

On Nov 21, 5:49*am, lanebush wrote:
Scott,

The 337 form can be sent in before the work begins. *This allows for
approval/disapproval before a saw is taken to the airplane. *I imagine
you will have to hire a DER (designated engineering representative) to
do an engineering analysis to accompany the 337. *Harold Kasola is
very easy to work with and has Kasola Engineering in Albany, GA. *A
call to him would be worth the effort. *Having just certified a club
glider in experimental (last week), I can tell you it took a few days
and a trip to the FSDO.

No inspector is going to sign a 337 before the work is done and DAR/
DER's aren't cheap. I paid $750.00 for an airworthiness-for-export and
the guy wasn't here more than 30 minutes.
JJ

And why exactly do you want to keep the std reg?

Some insurance policies take a very dim view of EXPERIMENTAL
aircraft. I recall one policy that would actually cover me if flying
an aircraft with a STD airworthiness certificate, but not when flying
an aircraft with an EXPERIMENTAL airworthiness certificate. This
might be an issue for some.

On Nov 22, 8:21*am, Guy Byars wrote:
And why exactly do you want to keep the std reg?

Some insurance policies take a very dim view of EXPERIMENTAL
aircraft. *I recall one policy that would actually cover me if flying
an aircraft with a STD airworthiness certificate, but not when flying
an aircraft with an EXPERIMENTAL airworthiness certificate. *This
might be an issue for some.

absolutely positively not the case for the SSA Group plan through
Costello. Also if the group plan won't work for you the EAA has a
fine group insurance plan as well.

I'm pretty sure going to experimental would place various restrictions on the flying of the aircraft. Â*

I really like to fiddle my own panel/Oâ‚‚/cockpit as I see fit, without
paying someone $100+ an hour to do it for me, usually not to my liking
(no mechanic cares as much about my glider as I do I also like
being able to do other repair work on it myself, of course following
the FAR guidelines on work/inspection/signoffs. There are no
*practical restrictions on your flight regime in an EXP glider though.
Besides not being able to use it commercially (renting it out, not an
issue for your Cirrus ) and a little extra paperwork, the only
limitation I can think of would be including the term 'experimental'
in your identification stream when announcing yourself to ATC if you
ever need to.

I had an EXP glider I thought I wanted to be Std when I first got it.
After looking at what the actual differences are (not the perceived
ones...), I realized I don't want a Std reg glider for myself anyhow.
Seeing you are up for making your own winglets, to me it's strange you
would lean towards Std since it keeps your obviously skilled hands
tied behind your back...

-Paul

On Nov 22, 8:07*am, Tony wrote:
On Nov 22, 8:21*am, Guy Byars wrote:

And why exactly do you want to keep the std reg?

Some insurance policies take a very dim view of EXPERIMENTAL
aircraft. *I recall one policy that would actually cover me if flying
an aircraft with a STD airworthiness certificate, but not when flying
an aircraft with an EXPERIMENTAL airworthiness certificate. *This
might be an issue for some.

absolutely positively not the case for the SSA Group plan through
Costello. *Also if the group plan won't work for you the EAA has a
fine group insurance plan as well.

The insurance issue for experimental relates to Life insurance not to
the aircraft hull and liability insurance.

Andy

On Nov 22, 8:07*am, Tony wrote:
On Nov 22, 8:21*am, Guy Byars wrote:

And why exactly do you want to keep the std reg?

Some insurance policies take a very dim view of EXPERIMENTAL
aircraft. *I recall one policy that would actually cover me if flying
an aircraft with a STD airworthiness certificate, but not when flying
an aircraft with an EXPERIMENTAL airworthiness certificate. *This
might be an issue for some.

absolutely positively not the case for the SSA Group plan through
Costello. *Also if the group plan won't work for you the EAA has a
fine group insurance plan as well.

I think he was talking of life insurance underwriters. Some will not
cover you, others want a rider if you fly personally, perhaps another
if you fly experimental. Some are not so restrictive. NY Life was
one several years ago. No idea of the current status. AOPA has
programs for pilots.

Frank Whiteley

"Frank Whiteley" wrote in message
...
I think he was talking of life insurance underwriters. Some will not
cover you, others want a rider if you fly personally, perhaps another
if you fly experimental. Some are not so restrictive. NY Life was
one several years ago. No idea of the current status. AOPA has
programs for pilots.

As do these folks: http://www.piclife.com/ Two years ago I priced several
companies, including AOPA. PICLife (they are actually just an agency, like
Costello) came in with the best price. Your results may vary. Life insurance
is a significant investment, get multiple quotes!

Vaughn

On 11-22-2010 13:36, JJ Sinclair wrote:
On Nov 21, 5:49 am, wrote:
Scott,

The 337 form can be sent in before the work begins. This allows for
approval/disapproval before a saw is taken to the airplane. I imagine
you will have to hire a DER (designated engineering representative) to
do an engineering analysis to accompany the 337. Harold Kasola is
very easy to work with and has Kasola Engineering in Albany, GA. A
call to him would be worth the effort. Having just certified a club
glider in experimental (last week), I can tell you it took a few days
and a trip to the FSDO.

No inspector is going to sign a 337 before the work is done and DAR/
DER's aren't cheap. I paid $750.00 for an airworthiness-for-export and
the guy wasn't here more than 30 minutes.
JJ

And I'm still having a hard time wrapping myself around the notion that
the FAA would be happy to change an aircraft airworthiness certificate
from standard to experimental for such a "small" change to the aircraft
and then turn over maintenance to the owner and just have an A&P sign
off a condition inspection yearly. Plus, I still think 337s are not
used to place an aircraft into the experimental category. For example,
a 337 (or STC) would be needed (I believe) to recover the wings on a
Cessna 140 that was originally covered with Grade A cotton when built
and certified and you recovered them with Stits.

On Nov 22, 3:16*pm, Scott wrote:
On 11-22-2010 13:36, JJ Sinclair wrote:





On Nov 21, 5:49 am, *wrote:
Scott,

The 337 form can be sent in before the work begins. *This allows for
approval/disapproval before a saw is taken to the airplane. *I imagine
you will have to hire a DER (designated engineering representative) to
do an engineering analysis to accompany the 337. *Harold Kasola is
very easy to work with and has Kasola Engineering in Albany, GA. *A
call to him would be worth the effort. *Having just certified a club
glider in experimental (last week), I can tell you it took a few days
and a trip to the FSDO.

No inspector is going to sign a 337 before the work is done and DAR/
DER's aren't cheap. I paid $750.00 for an airworthiness-for-export and
the guy wasn't here more than 30 minutes.
JJ

And I'm still having a hard time wrapping myself around the notion that
the FAA would be happy to change an aircraft airworthiness certificate
from standard to experimental for such a "small" change to the aircraft
and then turn over maintenance to the owner and just have an A&P sign
off a condition inspection yearly. *Plus, I still think 337s are not
used to place an aircraft into the experimental category. *For example,
a 337 (or STC) would be needed (I believe) to recover the wings on a
Cessna 140 that was originally covered with Grade A cotton when built
and certified and you recovered them with Stits.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Scott,
In order to modify a ship in standard category you need a 337 and your
inspector will need an approved method usually an STC. There is no
approved method for adding winglets to your Cirrus and an DAR or EAD
or FAA engineering will still need approved data.
The other way to add winglets to your Cirrus is to go down to your
FSDO and tell them you would like to add winglets, but the factory
doesn't provide this option. Request they change your registration to
experimental. Once your in experimental category, the winglets may be
added with a log book entry from an A&P. I recommend you have the work
done at a certified repair shop because improperly installed winglets
can change the flight characteristics and lead to big
trouble................I remember a guy that added his own home brew
winglets and the ship was the better part of uncontrollable! The only
way he was able to maintain control was to keep the speed above 80. He
was forced to land doing 80 also.
Hope this helps,
JJ

On 11-23-2010 15:10, JJ Sinclair wrote:
On Nov 22, 3:16 pm, wrote:
On 11-22-2010 13:36, JJ Sinclair wrote:





On Nov 21, 5:49 am, wrote:
Scott,

The 337 form can be sent in before the work begins. This allows for
approval/disapproval before a saw is taken to the airplane. I imagine
you will have to hire a DER (designated engineering representative) to
do an engineering analysis to accompany the 337. Harold Kasola is
very easy to work with and has Kasola Engineering in Albany, GA. A
call to him would be worth the effort. Having just certified a club
glider in experimental (last week), I can tell you it took a few days
and a trip to the FSDO.

No inspector is going to sign a 337 before the work is done and DAR/
DER's aren't cheap. I paid $750.00 for an airworthiness-for-export and
the guy wasn't here more than 30 minutes.
JJ

And I'm still having a hard time wrapping myself around the notion that
the FAA would be happy to change an aircraft airworthiness certificate
from standard to experimental for such a "small" change to the aircraft
and then turn over maintenance to the owner and just have an A&P sign
off a condition inspection yearly. Plus, I still think 337s are not
used to place an aircraft into the experimental category. For example,
a 337 (or STC) would be needed (I believe) to recover the wings on a
Cessna 140 that was originally covered with Grade A cotton when built
and certified and you recovered them with Stits.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Scott,
In order to modify a ship in standard category you need a 337 and your
inspector will need an approved method usually an STC. There is no
approved method for adding winglets to your Cirrus and an DAR or EAD
or FAA engineering will still need approved data.
The other way to add winglets to your Cirrus is to go down to your
FSDO and tell them you would like to add winglets, but the factory
doesn't provide this option. Request they change your registration to
experimental. Once your in experimental category, the winglets may be
added with a log book entry from an A&P. I recommend you have the work
done at a certified repair shop because improperly installed winglets
can change the flight characteristics and lead to big
trouble................I remember a guy that added his own home brew
winglets and the ship was the better part of uncontrollable! The only
way he was able to maintain control was to keep the speed above 80. He
was forced to land doing 80 also.
Hope this helps,
JJ

OK...I am not the original poster...at present I do not own a
sailplane...just a powered expermental airplane. I didn't realize it
was apparently fairly easy (???) to ask the FAA to change from a
standard to experimental airworthiness certificate. Maybe I will see if
I can get our Cessna 140 into the experimental class so I can do more
owner maint/mods