Cirrus vs ASW

I do have several hundred hours in 2 Standard cirruses,
and although I can't say that I haven't had the odd
fright and even a couple of very minor accidents in
them, these have always been down to me getting into
stupid situations, rather than any fault with the handling
of the glider.

Any production glider will have gone through much testing
by its makers and then the airworthiness authorities,
to make sure that it is quite safe for averagely skillful
glider pilots to fly. The Standard Cirrus is no exception
to the rule. For quite a few years it was the 'bees
knees' standard class glider and it is still probably
the best 'Club Class' glider even today. Over 700 of
them were built between 1969 and 1985 and most of these
are still flying.

All flying tailplanes were a fashion in the 1960s,
as they avoided any drag from kinks between the tailplane
and the elevator throughout the speed range. However
it is almost impossible to properly seal the joint
between the tailplane and the fin, and it was realised
that you could get the same performance from a fixed
tailplane with a separate elevator, without the poor
stick free stability in pitch and the low stick loads
per g which characterised the all-flying tailplane.
However as long as you fly smoothly and don't let go
of the stick for long periods, I don't believe that
these are major problems.

The controls are all pretty light on the Standard Cirrus,
and I remember my briefing for my first flight on type
was 'If the controls feel as though they are not connected,
don't worry about it'. I didn't and instantly liked
it. The comfortable cockpit and the light controls
mean that you can fly it all day without getting tired.


Overall it is a classic glider and one of the few glass
single seaters that looks distinctive in the air.

BTW, there have been far more accidents caused by pilots
failing to connect the elevator on ASW19s and 20s than
there have been for the Standard Cirrus, which should
self connect if you put the tailplane on properly.
The secret is to set the trim fully forward and to
offer up the tailplane nose down so that the elevator
drive hook is engaged first. Then lower the rear and
operate the spring loaded catch. If you do get it
wrong the tailplane will sit more nose up than normal
with the stick jammed forward. This should become obvious
when do a positive control check.

Derek Copeland
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At 22:36 23 March 2006, Marc Ramsey wrote:
Bruce wrote:
As a DG Driver may we assume you do not have 'hundreds
of hours in
ASW20s and Std Cirrus'? If so I assume you are one
of those making
pronouncements based on hearsay?

Actually, I have about 200 hours in various ASW-20
models, including an
ASW-20BL which I owned for a couple of years. You'll
note I explicitly
indicated that I could not comment on the characteristics
of the
Standard Cirrus, as I've never even sat in one and
made glider noises.
The one thing I did say was with respect to my general
dislike of
gliders with manual elevator hookups. We had recent
accident here in
the US that indicates one can indeed take off (but
not land) with the
elevator disconnected in a Standard Cirrus.

For your future reference if I say anything about the
K-21, Grob 103,
ASW-20, Ventus B, Duo, LAK-17A, and yes, DG-101, 300,
and 303, it is
based on anything from 50 to 300 hours of experience.
I don't think you
can point to too many of my posts where I talk about
about gliders I've
never flown. I just bought a DG-600 (a glider with
a bad reputation,
BTW), so expect further pronouncements.

Both the preceding posts contain wisdom. My first
flight in a single
seater of any sort was in my Std Cirrus. Though the
CFI and other
instructors allowed me to take the flight the responsibility
for taking
it was mine. Same with any person making a first flight
on type in a
single seater. The famous inscription at the Temple
of Apollo at the
entrance to the oracle of Delphi says - 'Know thyself'
As Bob said, you
are responsible for your own safety. Objective self
assessment is your
only rational option.

Absolutely. My argument is with the notion that because
one has had
good experiences with a particular glider, anyone who
makes a few
negative comments must therefore be talking out of
their arse, even if
they actually have as much or more experience in type.
There is a lot
of personal preference at work here. ALL gliders have
positives and
negatives. If someone asks, they need to hear both
sides.

Marc