LX Era 80 vs S80/S100

I fly with S80 in club aircraft and with LX EOS in my ASW27. My
contribution to your questions in that the S80 has too many knobs and
buttons. The EOS has one knob and one button.

Despite flying with the S80 for 2 seasons I still end up hitting the wrong
buttons and twiddling the wrong knob. The LX offerings are much easier to
operate.

Both are very good varios and provide all the data you need (and much
more).

Op woensdag 2 oktober 2019 12:45:04 UTC+2 schreef Jim White:
I fly with S80 in club aircraft and with LX EOS in my ASW27. My
contribution to your questions in that the S80 has too many knobs and
buttons. The EOS has one knob and one button.

Despite flying with the S80 for 2 seasons I still end up hitting the wrong
buttons and twiddling the wrong knob. The LX offerings are much easier to
operate.

Both are very good varios and provide all the data you need (and much
more).

Would you say the S80 is less accurate or about the same in performance? The Era 80 also features 2 knobs and buttons, but performance or feature wise I can't find many differences.

At 11:17 02 October 2019, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
Op woensdag 2 oktober 2019 12:45:04 UTC+2 schreef Jim White:
I fly with S80 in club aircraft and with LX EOS in my ASW27. My
contribution to your questions in that the S80 has too many knobs and
buttons. The EOS has one knob and one button.

Despite flying with the S80 for 2 seasons I still end up hitting the
wrong
buttons and twiddling the wrong knob. The LX offerings are much easier
to
operate.

Both are very good varios and provide all the data you need (and much
more).

Would you say the S80 is less accurate or about the same in performance?
The Era 80 also features 2 knobs and buttons, but performance or feature
wise I can't find many differences.

They are both very good varios. My EOS tracks my Sage Vario pretty much
exactly. I am not sure how you would check 'accuracy' in climb or glide
except by doing a Johnsonesque long glide in still air.

On Thursday, October 3, 2019 at 2:15:06 AM UTC-7, Jim White wrote:
At 11:17 02 October 2019, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
Op woensdag 2 oktober 2019 12:45:04 UTC+2 schreef Jim White:
I fly with S80 in club aircraft and with LX EOS in my ASW27. My
contribution to your questions in that the S80 has too many knobs and
buttons. The EOS has one knob and one button.

Despite flying with the S80 for 2 seasons I still end up hitting the
wrong
buttons and twiddling the wrong knob. The LX offerings are much easier
to
operate.

Both are very good varios and provide all the data you need (and much
more).

Would you say the S80 is less accurate or about the same in performance?
The Era 80 also features 2 knobs and buttons, but performance or feature
wise I can't find many differences.

They are both very good varios. My EOS tracks my Sage Vario pretty much
exactly. I am not sure how you would check 'accuracy' in climb or glide
except by doing a Johnsonesque long glide in still air.

I alway check altimeter too. More than once 3-4 knots on vario but reality, as told by altimeter was another story. When I turn into a thermal I note altitude.

I have actually used the s100 in my DG 100 for 1 season. I popped for the AHRS as well. 80mm is the way to go.

I ordered the lx navigation Eros first and then returned it. I preferred the simplicity of the S100. I found the era to be slightly less user friendly but it’s basically the same unit.

You will be happy with the S100. It has all the bells and whistles and is easy to use. I have it on electronic compensation though and it creates an overly sensitive and optimistic vario. Adjusting internal settings has minimal effect on this. On the DG 100 I would use the traditional TE compensation. I think you need the combo probe to get good performance with electronic compensation on the S100. I find myself waiting on the winter to confirm a thermal before turning. The S100 is usually right about the thermal and quick to identify it, but screams like it’s going to be a 5 kt climb until you exuberantly turn and find it to only be 1.5 kts. Yes, I have tuned it for stick thermals Properly. The winter stays honest throughout. I think this is due to the location of the static holes...

The $800 AHRS option sure is cool eye candy and could come in useful on that wave day where it closes in below you but Otherwise, you won’t use it.

My last comment is that you have one option for tone. Yea you can adjust it slightly but it’s doesn’t change much. For $2,000 you should have 10 options for types of sounds for the vario. It blows my mind that nobody seems to care and it’s not even discussed in reviews. The tone should be highly adjustable just like the face of the vario. Instead you get a standard beep. Cambridge and Tasman had some nice option. The industry needs to pamper attention to this as we all have to listen to it for hours on end

Op vrijdag 4 oktober 2019 15:17:12 UTC+2 schreef Turkey Vultu
I have actually used the s100 in my DG 100 for 1 season. I popped for the AHRS as well. 80mm is the way to go.

I ordered the lx navigation Eros first and then returned it. I preferred the simplicity of the S100. I found the era to be slightly less user friendly but it’s basically the same unit.

You will be happy with the S100. It has all the bells and whistles and is easy to use. I have it on electronic compensation though and it creates an overly sensitive and optimistic vario. Adjusting internal settings has minimal effect on this. On the DG 100 I would use the traditional TE compensation. I think you need the combo probe to get good performance with electronic compensation on the S100. I find myself waiting on the winter to confirm a thermal before turning. The S100 is usually right about the thermal and quick to identify it, but screams like it’s going to be a 5 kt climb until you exuberantly turn and find it to only be 1.5 kts. Yes, I have tuned it for stick thermals Properly. The winter stays honest throughout. I think this is due to the location of the static holes...

The $800 AHRS option sure is cool eye candy and could come in useful on that wave day where it closes in below you but Otherwise, you won’t use it.

My last comment is that you have one option for tone. Yea you can adjust it slightly but it’s doesn’t change much. For $2,000 you should have 10 options for types of sounds for the vario. It blows my mind that nobody seems to care and it’s not even discussed in reviews. The tone should be highly adjustable just like the face of the vario. Instead you get a standard beep. Cambridge and Tasman had some nice option. The industry needs to pamper attention to this as we all have to listen to it for hours on end

Right now I find myself in the following situation before EVERY thermal in the C4:
Speed to fly mode is active, try to keep it at 0. When flying through a thermal before turning, it shows me I have to slow down a lot, pointing towards the +3-4 m/s (while going straight), turning in thinking I have a great thermal, followed by switching mode to thermal mode, only to see I net +1 or +2 m/s.

In the C4, I have absolutely no way of telling before turning in and switching the mode, how strong it will be. That is one of the main reasons to switch to a new vario, as it is possible to show those multiple needles and digits, even in speed to fly mode (I think it can?)

On Fri, 04 Oct 2019 07:25:25 -0700, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:

In the C4, I have absolutely no way of telling before turning in and
switching the mode, how strong it will be. That is one of the main
reasons to switch to a new vario, as it is possible to show those
multiple needles and digits, even in speed to fly mode (I think it can?)

How are you controlling mode switch?

I have a C4 in my Libelle. I like the C4 a lot and find it very easy to
read and to interpret its sounds.

I use airspeed for mode switch and spent some time tuning that to suit me
and the glider. I've ended up with Thermal-Cruise set at 60kts and
Cruise-Thermal at 55 kts. At these switch points its almost always in
the appropriate mode without me having to do anything. If I need to force
a switch, then a small pull or push on the stick does it.

I never seriously considered using manual switching as just something
more to fiddle with. I tried switching on circling, but didn't like that
at all.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

It sounds like either your C4 is not configured properly, or there is a leak somewhere in your TE system or you use a TE probe that does not work properly. A new vario won't fix this, but will probably make things even worse. Recent varios are more sensitive to any issues with pressure sensing and plumbing than older units were.

Electronic compensation with these new devices requires a multi-probe with static and total pressure being picked up at the same location. But this is something all current varios have in common.

The new LX varios are better than the older ones (LX7007) and finally reached a quality comparable to 15 year old 302 or Zander ZS1.

On Friday, 4 October 2019 17:25:28 UTC+3, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
Op vrijdag 4 oktober 2019 15:17:12 UTC+2 schreef Turkey Vultu
I have actually used the s100 in my DG 100 for 1 season. I popped for the AHRS as well. 80mm is the way to go.

I ordered the lx navigation Eros first and then returned it. I preferred the simplicity of the S100. I found the era to be slightly less user friendly but it’s basically the same unit.

You will be happy with the S100. It has all the bells and whistles and is easy to use. I have it on electronic compensation though and it creates an overly sensitive and optimistic vario. Adjusting internal settings has minimal effect on this. On the DG 100 I would use the traditional TE compensation. I think you need the combo probe to get good performance with electronic compensation on the S100. I find myself waiting on the winter to confirm a thermal before turning. The S100 is usually right about the thermal and quick to identify it, but screams like it’s going to be a 5 kt climb until you exuberantly turn and find it to only be 1.5 kts. Yes, I have tuned it for stick thermals Properly. The winter stays honest throughout. I think this is due to the location of the static holes...

The $800 AHRS option sure is cool eye candy and could come in useful on that wave day where it closes in below you but Otherwise, you won’t use it.

My last comment is that you have one option for tone. Yea you can adjust it slightly but it’s doesn’t change much. For $2,000 you should have 10 options for types of sounds for the vario. It blows my mind that nobody seems to care and it’s not even discussed in reviews. The tone should be highly adjustable just like the face of the vario. Instead you get a standard beep. Cambridge and Tasman had some nice option. The industry needs to pamper attention to this as we all have to listen to it for hours on end

Right now I find myself in the following situation before EVERY thermal in the C4:
Speed to fly mode is active, try to keep it at 0. When flying through a thermal before turning, it shows me I have to slow down a lot, pointing towards the +3-4 m/s (while going straight), turning in thinking I have a great thermal, followed by switching mode to thermal mode, only to see I net +1 or +2 m/s.

In the C4, I have absolutely no way of telling before turning in and switching the mode, how strong it will be. That is one of the main reasons to switch to a new vario, as it is possible to show those multiple needles and digits, even in speed to fly mode (I think it can?)

This does not sound like variometer hardware issue or C4 feature. My guess is either pitot-static problem or configuration problem. You will probably have some problems with every new vario (except GlideS that can be configured to ignore pitot-static data for inertial vario). I would start with leak test, plumbing, new probe etc.

perjantai 4. lokakuuta 2019 17.25.28 UTC+3 Senna Van den Bosch kirjoitti:
Op vrijdag 4 oktober 2019 15:17:12 UTC+2 schreef Turkey Vultu
I have actually used the s100 in my DG 100 for 1 season. I popped for the AHRS as well. 80mm is the way to go.

I ordered the lx navigation Eros first and then returned it. I preferred the simplicity of the S100. I found the era to be slightly less user friendly but it’s basically the same unit.

You will be happy with the S100. It has all the bells and whistles and is easy to use. I have it on electronic compensation though and it creates an overly sensitive and optimistic vario. Adjusting internal settings has minimal effect on this. On the DG 100 I would use the traditional TE compensation. I think you need the combo probe to get good performance with electronic compensation on the S100. I find myself waiting on the winter to confirm a thermal before turning. The S100 is usually right about the thermal and quick to identify it, but screams like it’s going to be a 5 kt climb until you exuberantly turn and find it to only be 1.5 kts. Yes, I have tuned it for stick thermals Properly. The winter stays honest throughout. I think this is due to the location of the static holes...

The $800 AHRS option sure is cool eye candy and could come in useful on that wave day where it closes in below you but Otherwise, you won’t use it.

My last comment is that you have one option for tone. Yea you can adjust it slightly but it’s doesn’t change much. For $2,000 you should have 10 options for types of sounds for the vario. It blows my mind that nobody seems to care and it’s not even discussed in reviews. The tone should be highly adjustable just like the face of the vario. Instead you get a standard beep. Cambridge and Tasman had some nice option. The industry needs to pamper attention to this as we all have to listen to it for hours on end

Right now I find myself in the following situation before EVERY thermal in the C4:
Speed to fly mode is active, try to keep it at 0. When flying through a thermal before turning, it shows me I have to slow down a lot, pointing towards the +3-4 m/s (while going straight), turning in thinking I have a great thermal, followed by switching mode to thermal mode, only to see I net +1 or +2 m/s.

In the C4, I have absolutely no way of telling before turning in and switching the mode, how strong it will be. That is one of the main reasons to switch to a new vario, as it is possible to show those multiple needles and digits, even in speed to fly mode (I think it can?)

Reading this trough again I think this happens:

When you fly trough thermal your indicator is configured as speed commander, commanding to pull up, which is correct (in a sense that every single flight computer/variometer wants you to pull straight into deep stall in thermal, like this is what people normally do).

What you want is relative netto indicator. This tells you the strength of the thermal if you would circle in it at optimum climbing speed, no matter what your current speed is. Seems like C4 needle cannot be configured to show relative netto.