Gliding risk....

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 8:49:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
For those who haven’t seen it....
https://chessintheair.com/the-risk-o...-what-we-love/

Interesting stats. Counts of friends I've lost a few different ways:
- driving: 0
- motorcycle: 0
- bicycling: 1
- medical malpractice: 2
- hang-gliding (where I don't know so many): a couple
- general aviation: a few
- gliding: 25

After the first few friends I lost in gliding, I wrote this (recently reprinted in Soaring):
http://www.nadler.com/public/Nadler_...g_May_1987.pdf

Be careful out there,
Best Regards, Dave

Interesting stats. Counts of friends I've lost a few different ways:

- gliding: 25

After the first few friends I lost in gliding, I wrote this (recently reprinted in Soaring):
http://www.nadler.com/public/Nadler_...g_May_1987.pdf

Mr. Nadler,
Thanks for taking the time to write the article and the lessons it draws. Just to be on the safe side, though, how does one "unfriend" you? (just kidding).

This article is the most realistic yet somber risk analysis I’ve encountered so far. And those who believe that soaring is safer than motorcycling must have not been exposed to soaring long enough. In fact I believe it is much more than twice as dangerous as motorcycling.
That said, I disagree with some of the conclusions. I’ve been involved enough in hang gliding and paragliding to conclude that hey are statistically safer than soaring as long as you only count fatalities. The risk of serious injury is much higher of course.
Also comparing to skydiving and base jumping is unfair since those are very short activities measured in minutes. Most jumpers will not even get close to the 1000 hours base line comparison in their life time while most soaring pilots have a good chance to get there in a decade. Number of jumps will be a better way to compare. In my opinion number of days of participating in any activity may be a better common denominator. But the overall risk per hours of flying sounds about right to me. So for an average active glider pilot who flies an average of 100 hours per year all his life (say 50 years of flying) has about 10% chance of dying flying which indeed match the reality. About 10-20% of deceased glider pilots I knew or heard about died from soaring. This is close to the risk I believe I am taking by flying often all my life.
That said, I think the age comparison is a bit overly pessimistic. Even though I fly over 300 hours per year I would like to believe that I have better chance to survive another year than a 90+ years old in general. Or maybe not?

Ramy (trying to beat the odds after 40 years and 8000 hours of soaring hang gliders and sailplanes...)

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 6:57:36 PM UTC-7, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 8:49:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
For those who haven’t seen it....
https://chessintheair.com/the-risk-o...-what-we-love/

Interesting stats. Counts of friends I've lost a few different ways:
- driving: 0
- motorcycle: 0
- bicycling: 1
- medical malpractice: 2
- hang-gliding (where I don't know so many): a couple
- general aviation: a few
- gliding: 25

After the first few friends I lost in gliding, I wrote this (recently reprinted in Soaring):
http://www.nadler.com/public/Nadler_...g_May_1987.pdf

Be careful out there,
Best Regards, Dave

Life is dangerous. We (community) lost a five year old riding a scooter upstairs at home, he went over banister, through the chandelier. We have lost of few others riding scooters on the boardwalk. A ninth month old was just dropped through an open window 115 feet to her death. Cherish and honor the life you have, grow, learn, experience. I have about 7,000 hours spread throughout anything that goes up including warbirds and helicopters. Never crashes an airplane, but I am still dealing with injuries suffered decades ago in an auto accident. I have not known anyone that was swatted out of the sky by the hand of fate, but I sure have witnessed a few natural selection events.

Dave,

I have just read you PDF 'On Safer Soaring' I found it to be a very good
read. There are plenty of observations in regards to planning and
decision points the members at my club could learn from.
I will certainly recommend it in my next CFI's news.

http://www.nadler.com/public/Nadler_...aring_May_1987.
pdf

Be careful out there,
Best Regards, Dave

Dave,

I have just read you PDF 'On Safer Soaring' I found it to be a very good
read. There are plenty of observations in regards to planning and
decision points the members at my club could learn from.
I will certainly recommend it in my next CFI's news.

http://www.nadler.com/public/Nadler_...aring_May_1987.
pdf

Be careful out there,
Best Regards, Dave

Yes, but I LOVE to fly.Â* I never consider risks, I just keep in practice
and don't do dumb **** (any more) to mitigate those risks. Oh, and I've
been riding motorcycles for 50 years, from dirt to my present Harley.

On 10/31/2019 8:39 AM, Ian Gallacher wrote:
Dave,

I have just read you PDF 'On Safer Soaring' I found it to be a very good
read. There are plenty of observations in regards to planning and
decision points the members at my club could learn from.
I will certainly recommend it in my next CFI's news.

http://www.nadler.com/public/Nadler_...aring_May_1987.
pdf
Be careful out there,
Best Regards, Dave


--
Dan, 5J

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 7:57:36 PM UTC-6, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 8:49:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
For those who haven’t seen it....
https://chessintheair.com/the-risk-o...-what-we-love/

Interesting stats. Counts of friends I've lost a few different ways:
- driving: 0
- motorcycle: 0
- bicycling: 1
- medical malpractice: 2
- hang-gliding (where I don't know so many): a couple
- general aviation: a few
- gliding: 25

After the first few friends I lost in gliding, I wrote this (recently reprinted in Soaring):
http://www.nadler.com/public/Nadler_...g_May_1987.pdf

Be careful out there,
Best Regards, Dave

I personally quit riding (and racing) motorcycles in 1973 after losing three friends in one summer. The BBC had an interesting series on motorcycle racing, following eight young racers as they entered the sport. IIRC, the final episode had an epilogue that stated all eight were deceased within two years, all due to motorcycle accidents. To my mind, racing motorcycles is far more dangerous than racing gliders.

That said, the number of soaring pilots I've known that have come to grief I could count on one hand for many years. That number has jumped, but that's because I know more pilots than I did formerly. The rate has not shown much variation though. Few were racing, unless you count racing the sun or the clock.

There was an actuarial table published many years ago that listed the chance of accidental death, which was 1/1500 overall. Death in a glider was listed as 1/1800. Haven't been able to find anything similar in recent years.

So, in the years since I've quit riding/racing motorcycles, I've known only one additional fatality on a motorcycle.

Since I've been in SSA leadership and paying attention, far more glider pilots are succumbing to age and infirmities than in flight accidents. It's the company you keep.

You all fly safely and sanely now and please, only fly if you are fit to do so.

Happy landings,

Frank Whiteley

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 8:57:36 PM UTC-5, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 8:49:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
For those who haven’t seen it....
https://chessintheair.com/the-risk-o...-what-we-love/

Interesting stats. Counts of friends I've lost a few different ways:
- driving: 0
- motorcycle: 0
- bicycling: 1
- medical malpractice: 2
- hang-gliding (where I don't know so many): a couple
- general aviation: a few
- gliding: 25

After the first few friends I lost in gliding, I wrote this (recently reprinted in Soaring):
http://www.nadler.com/public/Nadler_...g_May_1987.pdf

Be careful out there,
Best Regards, Dave

A few years ago, I sat next to Judge McWhorter during the SSA convention safety presentation, at which gliding fatalities were related to hours of exposure to risk (in flight).
Judge's career has been in coal-mining safety. Listening to the numbers, he said, "Soaring is more dangerous than coal mining."

A few years ago, I sat next to Judge McWhorter during the SSA convention safety presentation, at which gliding fatalities were related to hours of exposure to risk (in flight).
Judge's career has been in coal-mining safety. Listening to the numbers, he said, "Soaring is more dangerous than coal mining."

As somebody in the mining industry in South Africa (which has worse mining safety figures than the U.S.) - I can vouch for the fact that coal mining is pretty safe when considering the statistics.

Clinton Birch