GLIDING INTERNATIONAL -- RESEARCH

Been there, done that. And it depends on what your definition of “ decent� club gliders is. In a club setting my definition is ships which are inexpensive to fly and operate.
Due to the ridiculously high cost of personal aircraft ownership in EU, the club scene is essential for folks of modest means to get to fly. Thankfully here in the states, we are not forced into that situation. Any tom-dick-harry can, for modest means, own and operate his own ship! Can’t say that about EU. Have fun with your “decent� club ships over there, I’d rather own and fly my own ship, even if its of lower performance here, wherever and whenever I choose.

I am a member of a small UK club, I use to own an IS29 D2
outright but stopped flying in early 2000, came back to soaring in
2015 and have a half share in a nice Standard Cirrus. Most club
members own or have a share in gliders of similar or better
performance ranging from Jet powered Shark, ASH 25, DG 400 M
DG 600 M Slingsby Skylark 4 Dart 17 a number of Ventus 1 and 2.
Nimbus and mini Nimbus. Club fleet is Puchacz , Grob Twin Acro 2
and Grob 102 Astir , we own a Robin DR400 for Areotows.

Launch fees are

Aerotow to 2000' £24.00
Aerotow - each additional 200' above 2000' £1.50
Aerotow to 1000' - only available for dual training £14.00
Aerotow to 1500' - only available for dual training £20.00
Winch launch Fee - all launches before 11:00 hrs £4
Winch launch Fee - after 11:00 hrs - non-soaring flights £6
Winch launch Fee - after 11:00 hrs - soaring flights £8
Self launch fee- including members' powered aircraft £3

Rental for club aircraft

Annual members - 2 seaters,
per minute for first hour £0.35 (£21 for first hour)
Annual members - 2 seaters,
per minute after first hour £0.25 (£15 per subsequent hour)
Annual members - 2 seaters,
after 3 hours. Free (approved flights)
Annual members - Astir single seater, 30p per minute first hour, 20p
per minute second hour. Free after second hour (consistent with the
needs of other members)

I think those costs mean it is financially accessible to the majority.

I was a Registered nurse with a family and in the UK we are not paid
as well as in the USA however it has always been affordable for me.

I would be interested to hear how that compares with USA


Been there, done that. And it depends on what your definition of
decent club gliders is. In a club setting my definition is ships which
are inexpensive to fly and operate.

Due to the ridiculously high cost of personal aircraft ownership in
EU,
the club scene is essential for folks of modest means to get to fly.

Thankfully here in the states, we are not forced into that situation.
Any
tom-dick-harry can, for modest means, own and operate his own
ship! Cant say that about EU. Have fun with your decent club ships
overthere, Id rather own and fly my own ship, even if its of lower
performance here, wherever and whenever I choose.

Le mardi 12 novembre 2019 17:51:07 UTC+1, a écritÂ*:
Been there, done that. And it depends on what your definition of “ decent� club gliders is. In a club setting my definition is ships which are inexpensive to fly and operate.
Due to the ridiculously high cost of personal aircraft ownership in EU, the club scene is essential for folks of modest means to get to fly. Thankfully here in the states, we are not forced into that situation. Any tom-dick-harry can, for modest means, own and operate his own ship! Can’t say that about EU. Have fun with your “decent� club ships over there, I’d rather own and fly my own ship, even if its of lower performance here, wherever and whenever I choose.

In Europe, you can get a single seater Astir or a Standard Cirrus for less than 10k€, and ownership will cost you a couple of hundred bucks per year. If you don't have that budget, some wooden ships like Ka6 etc go for 2.5k to 5k (and there are plenty available). If that's incredibly expensive for you...

I fly a Ventus cM, and I prefer to have my personal glider for various reasons, but cost and performance are not part of them. In my club, for far less money than my Ventus costs me, I can chose between 2 LS4, 2 DuoDiscus and 2 LS18-18 and fly almost as much as I want... Ok, I live in Switzerland, and club flying being affordable is relative.
So yes, the club scene is mainly for people who can't or don't want to invest into their own glider. And that makes that we have a very strong gliding community, with clubs about everywhere. We had a new club member changing over from a neighbouring club (50 km away) because he had moved and didn't want to drive more than 30 km to the airfield.

wrote on 11/12/2019 8:51 AM:
Been there, done that. And it depends on what your definition of “ decent� club
gliders is. In a club setting my definition is ships which are inexpensive to
fly and operate. Due to the ridiculously high cost of personal aircraft
ownership in EU, the club scene is essential for folks of modest means to get
to fly. Thankfully here in the states, we are not forced into that situation.
Any tom-dick-harry can, for modest means, own and operate his own ship! Can’t
say that about EU. Have fun with your “decent� club ships over there, I’d
rather own and fly my own ship, even if its of lower performance here, wherever
and whenever I choose.

Unfortunately, that does not make it as appealing to nearly as many US
tom-dick-harry as the European club system makes it their tom-dick-harry. The
situation in Germany, for example, is much different than here. Germany alone has
more glider pilots than we do, and it has a quarter the population. I think the
Germans, and Europeans in general, have more choices about when and where to fly
than US pilots, because there are so many clubs within driving range. They can buy
gliders cheaply, too, if ownership is really desired, and it's lots easier to get
a launch.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Its true, there are many more numerous opportunities to soar in EU, and I am in no way denigrating the soaring there. The scene in north america is just very different. We have never been blessed with soaring integral to our culture like germany has had. Soaring is just one of many aspects of aviation available to us. It has been private powered flight and the freedom of the home building movement and the aviation entrepenurial spirit that we are blessed with. We can fly dang near anywhere we want, anytime we want. We can build and fly and modify dang near anything we can think up. That freedom exists nowhere else in the world. In addition, we have every type of soaring a guy would want to engage in be it monster wave, increadable ridges and convective conditions second to none except africa and australia. Except here, you don’t need multiple permits from different countries to move and fly in different conditions. IMOP there is no free’r place in the world to fly gliders.

wrote on 11/12/2019 2:30 PM:
Except here, you don’t need multiple permits from different countries to move
and fly in different conditions. IMOP there is no free’r place in the world to
fly gliders.

So, you were talking about airspace and borders, not clubs.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Yes Eric thats what I was reffering to. That and the relative lack of restrictive federal regulation regarding aviation we enjoy over here.