Gliding risk....

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 10:53:57 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 4:54:08 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:

Before I purchased any glider manufactured by either of these subcontractors I would insist on a full-blown ultrasonic NDT test.

This relevant accident happened in 2003.

Before I get my nickers in a twist, I'd like to know whether the manufacturing deficiencies have been addressed in the intervening 16 years.

SH issued an AD on affected ships. Presumably all were inspected and repaired as needed a long time ago.
I recall that SH did take action to document the process areas that had been done only by hands on training. I don't have written info on this.
SH stepped up on this and did what I consider a good job when the issue was identified. I had an affected glider at the time and the inspection was prompt, thorough, and cost free.
UH

Yeah, the entire fleet was inspected and repaired as required (years ago), and SH paid for the whole thing. Gliders built at the factory in Germany were found to be affected, as well as those built at contractors.

Lynn Alley
"2KA"

At 16:14 05 December 2019, 2KA wrote:
Yeah, the entire fleet was inspected and repaired as required
(years ago),
and SH paid for the whole thing. Gliders built at the factory
in Germany
were found to be affected, as well as those built at
contractors.

Lynn Alley
"2KA"

You were lucky! I was in a UK owned DuoDiscus based at
Sisteron, France, a few years ago. Wing spar de-bonding was
discovered at an annual inspection even though the glider had,
in theory, been inspected previously, looking for this specific
manufacturing fault. SH DECLINED TO PAY FOR THIS REPAIR;
if I recall correctly each of us in the 8 man syndicate had to
cough up about £700.......
Dave Walsh

At 19:09 05 December 2019, Dave Walsh wrote:
At 16:14 05 December 2019, 2KA wrote:
Yeah, the entire fleet was inspected and repaired as required
(years ago),
and SH paid for the whole thing. Gliders built at the factory
in Germany
were found to be affected, as well as those built at
contractors.

Lynn Alley
"2KA"

You were lucky! I was in a UK owned DuoDiscus based at
Sisteron, France, a few years ago. Wing spar de-bonding was
discovered at an annual inspection even though the glider had,
in theory, been inspected previously, looking for this specific
manufacturing fault. SH DECLINED TO PAY FOR THIS REPAIR;
if I recall correctly each of us in the 8 man syndicate had to
cough up about £700.......
Dave Walsh

I inspected this glider in compliance with the AD, and was accused of
not inspecting it correctly! It was subsequently discovered an
undocumented wing change had taken place. Not all inspectors or repair
shops are honest!

Terry Slater

You were lucky! I was in a UK owned DuoDiscus based at
Sisteron, France, a few years ago. Wing spar de-bonding was
discovered at an annual inspection even though the glider had,
in theory, been inspected previously, looking for this specific
manufacturing fault. SH DECLINED TO PAY FOR THIS REPAIR;
if I recall correctly each of us in the 8 man syndicate had to
cough up about £700.......
Dave Walsh

I inspected this glider in compliance with the AD, and was
accused of
not inspecting it correctly! It was subsequently discovered an
undocumented wing change had taken place. Not all inspectors
or repair
shops are honest!
Terry Slater

I never recall being told that an "undocumented wing change" had
actually taken place; all I heard was a rumour. I was told that
there was no truth in the rumour. The facts remains that SH built
this Duo wing and we, the syndicate partners at the time, ended
up paying for its repair. Who inspected what and whether it was
done competently is not relevant: our wing WAS defective, it had
defective wing spar bonding, we ended up footing the bill. A ****
poor result.
Dave Walsh

On Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 11:15:08 AM UTC-8, Dave Walsh wrote:
At 16:14 05 December 2019, 2KA wrote:
Yeah, the entire fleet was inspected and repaired as required
(years ago),
and SH paid for the whole thing. Gliders built at the factory
in Germany
were found to be affected, as well as those built at
contractors.

Lynn Alley
"2KA"

You were lucky! I was in a UK owned DuoDiscus based at
Sisteron, France, a few years ago. Wing spar de-bonding was
discovered at an annual inspection even though the glider had,
in theory, been inspected previously, looking for this specific
manufacturing fault. SH DECLINED TO PAY FOR THIS REPAIR;
if I recall correctly each of us in the 8 man syndicate had to
cough up about £700.......
Dave Walsh

This is particularly disturbing, raising the question of the effectiveness of the original inspection method(s). Do the logbook(s) detail how and when this inspection was done? How did the current annual discover the de-bonding?

Tom

At 22:33 05 December 2019, 2G wrote:
On Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 11:15:08 AM UTC-8, Dave Walsh wrote:
At 16:14 05 December 2019, 2KA wrote:
Yeah, the entire fleet was inspected and repaired as required=20
(years ago),
and SH paid for the whole thing. Gliders built at the factory=20
in Germany
were found to be affected, as well as those built at=20
contractors.

Lynn Alley
"2KA"
=20
You were lucky! I was in a UK owned DuoDiscus based at=20
Sisteron, France, a few years ago. Wing spar de-bonding was=20
discovered at an annual inspection even though the glider had,=20
in theory, been inspected previously, looking for this specific=20
manufacturing fault. SH DECLINED TO PAY FOR THIS REPAIR;=20
if I recall correctly each of us in the 8 man syndicate had to=20
cough up about =C2=A3700.......
Dave Walsh

This is particularly disturbing, raising the question of the
effectiveness
=
of the original inspection method(s). Do the logbook(s) detail how and
when=
this inspection was done? How did the current annual discover the
de-bondi=
ng?

Tom

The inspections were performed with an endoscope, and the full length of
the spar bonding was inspected visually. SH issued a very comprehensive
guide to the process.

Terry

On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 3:15:05 AM UTC-8, Terry Slater wrote:
At 22:33 05 December 2019, 2G wrote:
On Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 11:15:08 AM UTC-8, Dave Walsh wrote:
At 16:14 05 December 2019, 2KA wrote:
Yeah, the entire fleet was inspected and repaired as required=20
(years ago),
and SH paid for the whole thing. Gliders built at the factory=20
in Germany
were found to be affected, as well as those built at=20
contractors.

Lynn Alley
"2KA"
=20
You were lucky! I was in a UK owned DuoDiscus based at=20
Sisteron, France, a few years ago. Wing spar de-bonding was=20
discovered at an annual inspection even though the glider had,=20
in theory, been inspected previously, looking for this specific=20
manufacturing fault. SH DECLINED TO PAY FOR THIS REPAIR;=20
if I recall correctly each of us in the 8 man syndicate had to=20
cough up about =C2=A3700.......
Dave Walsh

This is particularly disturbing, raising the question of the
effectiveness
=
of the original inspection method(s). Do the logbook(s) detail how and
when=
this inspection was done? How did the current annual discover the
de-bondi=
ng?

Tom

The inspections were performed with an endoscope, and the full length of
the spar bonding was inspected visually. SH issued a very comprehensive
guide to the process.

Terry

Yeah, I read their TN 396-08 that covered the process. This required cutting several holes in each wing for access by the endoscope. Of course, these holes had to be repaired and refinished. It would have been so much easier and cheaper to have done this inspection by ultrasonic NDT.

Tom

2G wrote on 12/6/2019 1:53 PM:
On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 3:15:05 AM UTC-8, Terry Slater wrote:

Tom

The inspections were performed with an endoscope, and the full length of
the spar bonding was inspected visually. SH issued a very comprehensive
guide to the process.

Terry

Yeah, I read their TN 396-08 that covered the process. This required cutting several holes in each wing for access by the endoscope. Of course, these holes had to be repaired and refinished. It would have been so much easier and cheaper to have done this inspection by ultrasonic NDT.

If the SH wing is constructed like the ASH26E wing, there is a layer of foam
between the outer skin and inner skin that is glued (hopefully) to spar. I suspect
ultrasound would not be effective, so what would kind of NDT would be used?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1