Why did Bush join the national guard?

From: (ArtKramr)
Date: 9/6/2004 6:59 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: Ian MacLure
Date: 9/6/2004 4:42 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

(ArtKramr) wrote in
:

Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 9/6/2004 2:02 PM Pacifi

-again. You could not have joined the reserves in 1943. They had
been federalized and mobilized almost three years earlier. Historical
fact

In 1943 I joined the Army Air Corps and went to war. When did you go
to war you cowardly piece of lying crap? Never. Right?.

My cousin joined up in 1941.

I'll bet he saw more combat than you did and he flew C-54s.


So now you are taking credit for your cousins military action while you did
nothin? What a fraud eouy are. And he flew C-54's in WW II? How did he do
that? What was his unit?. What theatre. If he flew C-54's in WW II he didn't
****.You are just another dumb wannewabbee telling combat veterans what it
was
really like.


Arthur Kramer


Art, show where he took credit or told you how combat really was. I will watch
with great interest for your answer.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: (B2431)
Date: 9/7/2004 1:52 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

I'll bet he saw more combat than you did and he flew C-54s.


A C-54 is not a combat aircraft. Seeing "action" implies that you have done
harm to the enemy. You can't do harm to the enemy in an unarmed airliner.
Flying combat airccraft is one thing, Flying airliners is something else.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

I'll bet he saw more combat than you did and he flew C-54s.


A C-54 is not a combat aircraft. Seeing "action" implies that you have
done
harm to the enemy. You can't do harm to the enemy in an unarmed airliner.
Flying combat airccraft is one thing, Flying airliners is something else.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Art,

Being a bombadeer / navigator is not like piloting anything.

Admit it Art, you were a just a crew member on an airplane flown by a real
pilot.

Applying your convoluted "logic" to your self - you have no right to express
opinions on piloting anything - or on being a commissioned officer with
aircraft command authority.

And your definition of "action" is so screwd up I'm not even going to
comment...

Jack G.

Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: "Jack G"
Date: 9/7/2004 7:54 PM Pacific

Art,

Being a bombadeer / navigator is not like piloting anything.

Admit it Art, you were a just a crew member on an airplane flown by a real
pilot.

Do you know why they have pilots on bombers? Just for one reason which was to
put a bombardier over a target for 30 seconds. Do you know why they have
gunners on a bomber? Just one reason. To protect that bombardier and get him
over the target for 30 seconds. Do you know why they have fighter cover? Just
to get a bombardier over a target for 30 seconds. The pilot is only a bus
driver to deliver him where he can hurt the enemy. So don't make too big a
deal of pilots . Some are good and some are not..If you get one who can fly a
good bomb run, not dump your gyro and keep the wings level so you don't dump
bombs all over the landscape, you are lucky.But good bomb run pilots are not
all that easy to find. And as far as judging pilots performance on a bomb run,
no one is more qualified to make that judgement than a bombardier. But this is
a subject you would know nothing about.






Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote

Do you know why they have pilots on bombers? Just for one reason which was to
put a bombardier over a target for 30 seconds. Do you know why they have
gunners on a bomber? Just one reason. To protect that bombardier and get him
over the target for 30 seconds. Do you know why they have fighter cover? Just
to get a bombardier over a target for 30 seconds. The pilot is only a bus
driver to deliver him where he can hurt the enemy. So don't make too big a
deal of pilots . Some are good and some are not..If you get one who can fly a
good bomb run, not dump your gyro and keep the wings level so you don't dump
bombs all over the landscape, you are lucky.But good bomb run pilots are not
all that easy to find. And as far as judging pilots performance on a bomb run,
no one is more qualified to make that judgement than a bombardier. But this is
a subject you would know nothing about.

This pretty much proves that Kramer is dead, and his nephew or ******* child has
taken over his name. A real veteran doesn't think like that, and I've known some
serious misfits, but never to this level.

Do you know why they have pilots on bombers? Just for one reason which
was to
put a bombardier over a target for 30 seconds. Do you know why they have
gunners on a bomber? Just one reason. To protect that bombardier and get
him
over the target for 30 seconds. Do you know why they have fighter cover?
Just
to get a bombardier over a target for 30 seconds. The pilot is only a bus
driver to deliver him where he can hurt the enemy. Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:


The incredibly small world of Mr. Kramer just got a lot smaller. Kind of
sad watching him self-destruct...

Jack G.

ubject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: "Jack G"
Date: 9/7/2004 9:46 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: n8w%c.6743$Q44.2546@trnddc09

Do you know why they have pilots on bombers? Just for one reason which
was to
put a bombardier over a target for 30 seconds. Do you know why they have
gunners on a bomber? Just one reason. To protect that bombardier and get
him
over the target for 30 seconds. Do you know why they have fighter cover?
Just
to get a bombardier over a target for 30 seconds. The pilot is only a bus
driver to deliver him where he can hurt the enemy. Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:


The incredibly small world of Mr. Kramer just got a lot smaller. Kind of
sad watching him self-destruct...

Jack G.


Jealousy is a terrible thing


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

ArtKramr wrote:

Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: "Jack G"
Date: 9/7/2004 7:54 PM Pacific





Art,

Being a bombadeer / navigator is not like piloting anything.

Admit it Art, you were a just a crew member on an airplane flown by a real
pilot.



Do you know why they have pilots on bombers? Just for one reason which was to
put a bombardier over a target for 30 seconds. Do you know why they have
gunners on a bomber? Just one reason. To protect that bombardier and get him
over the target for 30 seconds. Do you know why they have fighter cover? Just
to get a bombardier over a target for 30 seconds. The pilot is only a bus
driver to deliver him where he can hurt the enemy. So don't make too big a
deal of pilots . Some are good and some are not..If you get one who can fly a
good bomb run, not dump your gyro and keep the wings level so you don't dump
bombs all over the landscape, you are lucky.But good bomb run pilots are not
all that easy to find. And as far as judging pilots performance on a bomb run,
no one is more qualified to make that judgement than a bombardier. But this is
a subject you would know nothing about.






Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer


Wow! Tell that to Paul Shorts face!

Get rid of all the useless people and how does the bombardier get to the
target??

Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: Mark and Kim Smith
Date: 9/8/2004 1:14 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

ArtKramr wrote:

Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: "Jack G"
Date: 9/7/2004 7:54 PM Pacific





Art,

Being a bombadeer / navigator is not like piloting anything.

Admit it Art, you were a just a crew member on an airplane flown by a real
pilot.



Do you know why they have pilots on bombers? Just for one reason which was
to
put a bombardier over a target for 30 seconds. Do you know why they have
gunners on a bomber? Just one reason. To protect that bombardier and get him
over the target for 30 seconds. Do you know why they have fighter cover?
Just
to get a bombardier over a target for 30 seconds. The pilot is only a bus
driver to deliver him where he can hurt the enemy. So don't make too big a
deal of pilots . Some are good and some are not..If you get one who can fly
a
good bomb run, not dump your gyro and keep the wings level so you don't
dump
bombs all over the landscape, you are lucky.But good bomb run pilots are not
all that easy to find. And as far as judging pilots performance on a bomb
run,
no one is more qualified to make that judgement than a bombardier. But this
is
a subject you would know nothing about.






Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer


Wow! Tell that to Paul Shorts face!

I have many times. And every pilot in the 344th knew that his prime job was to
put the bombardier over the target,. It is only the wannabbes on this NG that
can't figure that out.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"Mark and Kim Smith" wrote in message
...

Get rid of all the useless people and how does the bombardier get to the
target??


That's been done. Today we deliver more bombs than the Marauder could carry
from single-seat aircraft. The sole remaining crew member is called
"pilot".