Why did Bush join the national guard?

"Mark and Kim Smith" wrote in message
...

Wow! Tell that to Paul Shorts face!

Get rid of all the useless people and how does the bombardier get to the
target??

He skis in on his tongue?? (^-^)))

George Z.

From: Mark and Kim Smith
Date: 9/8/2004 3:14 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

ArtKramr wrote:

Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: "Jack G"
Date: 9/7/2004 7:54 PM Pacific





Art,

Being a bombadeer / navigator is not like piloting anything.

Admit it Art, you were a just a crew member on an airplane flown by a real
pilot.



Do you know why they have pilots on bombers? Just for one reason which was
to
put a bombardier over a target for 30 seconds. Do you know why they have
gunners on a bomber? Just one reason. To protect that bombardier and get him
over the target for 30 seconds. Do you know why they have fighter cover?
Just
to get a bombardier over a target for 30 seconds. The pilot is only a bus
driver to deliver him where he can hurt the enemy. So don't make too big a
deal of pilots . Some are good and some are not..If you get one who can fly
a
good bomb run, not dump your gyro and keep the wings level so you don't
dump
bombs all over the landscape, you are lucky.But good bomb run pilots are not
all that easy to find. And as far as judging pilots performance on a bomb
run,
no one is more qualified to make that judgement than a bombardier. But this
is
a subject you would know nothing about.






Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer


Wow! Tell that to Paul Shorts face!

Get rid of all the useless people and how does the bombardier get to the
target??


Haven't you heard? There was no one else in the entire ETO. Art won that air
war all by himself.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

Do you know why they have pilots on bombers? Just for one reason
which was to put a bombardier over a target for 30 seconds.


Every bomber required at least one pilot, but not every bomber required a
bombardier.



The pilot is only a bus driver to deliver him where he can hurt the enemy.
So don't make too big a deal of pilots . Some are good and some are
not..If you get one who can fly a good bomb run, not dump your gyro
and keep the wings level so you don't dump bombs all over the landscape,
you are lucky.But good bomb run pilots are not all that easy to find. And
as far as judging pilots performance on a bomb run, no one is more
qualified to make that judgement than a bombardier. But this is a subject
you would know nothing about.


Sounds like you're bitter over washing out of pilot training and being made
a bombardier.

Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: "Steven P. McNicoll"
Date: 9/8/2004 4:59 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: .net


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

Do you know why they have pilots on bombers? Just for one reason
which was to put a bombardier over a target for 30 seconds.


Every bomber required at least one pilot, but not every bomber required a
bombardier.



The pilot is only a bus driver to deliver him where he can hurt the enemy.
So don't make too big a deal of pilots . Some are good and some are
not..If you get one who can fly a good bomb run, not dump your gyro
and keep the wings level so you don't dump bombs all over the landscape,
you are lucky.But good bomb run pilots are not all that easy to find. And
as far as judging pilots performance on a bomb run, no one is more
qualified to make that judgement than a bombardier. But this is a subject
you would know nothing about.


Sounds like you're bitter over washing out of pilot training and being made
a bombardier.


Never was in pilot traning.Sounds like you are bitter for not fighting for your
country. But you cant blame me for that. You have only yourself to blame.



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

Never was in pilot traning.


I didn't say you were. I said it sounds like you're bitter over washing out
of pilot training and being made a bombardier.

Not everyone was qualified to be a pilot.

ArtKramr wrote:

Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: "Steven P. McNicoll"
Date: 9/8/2004 4:59 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: .net


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

Do you know why they have pilots on bombers? Just for one reason
which was to put a bombardier over a target for 30 seconds.


Every bomber required at least one pilot, but not every bomber required a
bombardier.



The pilot is only a bus driver to deliver him where he can hurt the enemy.
So don't make too big a deal of pilots . Some are good and some are
not..If you get one who can fly a good bomb run, not dump your gyro
and keep the wings level so you don't dump bombs all over the landscape,
you are lucky.But good bomb run pilots are not all that easy to find. And
as far as judging pilots performance on a bomb run, no one is more
qualified to make that judgement than a bombardier. But this is a subject
you would know nothing about.


Sounds like you're bitter over washing out of pilot training and being made
a bombardier.



Never was in pilot traning.Sounds like you are bitter for not fighting for your
country. But you cant blame me for that. You have only yourself to blame.

Art, in WWII, if a drunken pilot got to snorting too much coke, could
him mom get get a transfer to Alabama where he wouldn't seem so unusual?
Or did that start in the early 1970s?

Cheers

--mike




Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

ArtKramr wrote:

Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: "Steven P. McNicoll"
Date: 9/8/2004 4:59 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: .net


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

Do you know why they have pilots on bombers? Just for one reason
which was to put a bombardier over a target for 30 seconds.


Every bomber required at least one pilot, but not every bomber required a
bombardier.



The pilot is only a bus driver to deliver him where he can hurt the enemy.
So don't make too big a deal of pilots . Some are good and some are
not..If you get one who can fly a good bomb run, not dump your gyro
and keep the wings level so you don't dump bombs all over the landscape,
you are lucky.But good bomb run pilots are not all that easy to find. And
as far as judging pilots performance on a bomb run, no one is more
qualified to make that judgement than a bombardier. But this is a subject
you would know nothing about.


Sounds like you're bitter over washing out of pilot training and being made
a bombardier.



Never was in pilot traning.Sounds like you are bitter for not fighting for your
country. But you cant blame me for that. You have only yourself to blame.

Art, in WWII, if a drunken pilot got to snorting too much coke, could
him mom get him a transfer to Alabama where he wouldn't seem so unusual?
Or did that start in the early 1970s?

Cheers

--mike




Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

A C-54 is not a combat aircraft. Seeing "action" implies that you have
done
harm to the enemy. You can't do harm to the enemy in an unarmed airliner.
Flying combat airccraft is one thing, Flying airliners is something else.


When it comes to doing harm to the enemy, "unarmed airliners" delivering
paratroops isn't so different from bombers delivering bombs.

ArtKramr wrote:

A C-54 is not a combat aircraft. Seeing "action" implies that you have done
harm to the enemy. You can't do harm to the enemy in an unarmed airliner.
Flying combat airccraft is one thing, Flying airliners is something else.

Ahh, now we have a new Kramer version of combat. Now, to qualify, you must have
delivered explosive ordnance. C-47s flying over "the Hump" and intercepted by
Japanese Zeros...not "real combat". C-130s landing in Khe Sahn during
artilliary and mortor fire...not combat. UH-60s inserting SF forces behind
Iraqi lines before the beginning of Iraqi Freedom...not combat. Hell, Ed
Rasimus in an F-4E on MiGCAP over Hanoi...not combat. The list gets shorter and
shorter....


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: (BUFDRVR)
Date: 9/7/2004 8:18 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

ArtKramr wrote:

A C-54 is not a combat aircraft. Seeing "action" implies that you have done
harm to the enemy. You can't do harm to the enemy in an unarmed airliner.
Flying combat airccraft is one thing, Flying airliners is something else.

Ahh, now we have a new Kramer version of combat. Now, to qualify, you must
have
delivered explosive ordnance. C-47s flying over "the Hump" and intercepted by
Japanese Zeros...not "real combat". C-130s landing in Khe Sahn during
artilliary and mortor fire...not combat. UH-60s inserting SF forces behind
Iraqi lines before the beginning of Iraqi Freedom...not combat. Hell, Ed
Rasimus in an F-4E on MiGCAP over Hanoi...not combat. The list gets shorter
and
shorter....


BUFDRVR



Don't try to mix Ed with the wannabbes on this NG. Ed fought the good fight.
But why are you still on that eternal bomb run that never ends? You have been
on that bomb run for years and never reached the target.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer