Jon Johanson stranded in Antartica....

You can not possibly believe that there was "exploratory spirit" involved
here. He was not blazing new frontiers. It was simply a publicity stunt that
was only meant as a means of self promotion. Not one person on this planet
would have benefited other than himself had he pulled it off. He screwed up
by not being prepared and it is up to him to bail himself out.
"Roger Halstead" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 02:26:37 +0000,
(Robert Bonomi) wrote:

In article ,
ET wrote:
"Jimmy Galvin" wrote in
:

You can offer all apologies all you want but only for yourself. Don't
talk for me. I feel that he took a chance for glory, self promotion,
stupidity, or whatever and ended up with his tit caught in the
wringer. It is not up to me and my tax dollars to bail his sorry ass
out of the jamb he inflected on himself. This goes for all those fools
that climb mountains, trek through caves, or go exploring in the woods
relying on a GPS with 1/2 dead batteries to guide them along. They
should all just be left to their own devices and hopefully receive a
Darwin Award for their efforts.

Yup, what ever happened to compassion and the exploratory spirit.?

Relax. H?a
"Jimmy Galvin" wrote in message
...
You can not possibly believe that there was "exploratory spirit" involved
here. He was not blazing new frontiers. It was simply a publicity stunt
that
was only meant as a means of self promotion. Not one person on this planet
would have benefited other than himself had he pulled it off. He screwed
up
by not being prepared and it is up to him to bail himself out.
"Roger Halstead" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 02:26:37 +0000,
(Robert Bonomi) wrote:

In article ,
ET wrote:
"Jimmy Galvin" wrote in
:

You can offer all apologies all you want but only for yourself.
Don't
talk for me. I feel that he took a chance for glory, self promotion,
stupidity, or whatever and ended up with his tit caught in the
wringer. It is not up to me and my tax dollars to bail his sorry ass
out of the jamb he inflected on himself. This goes for all those
fools
that climb mountains, trek through caves, or go exploring in the
woods
relying on a GPS with 1/2 dead batteries to guide them along. They
should all just be left to their own devices and hopefully receive a
Darwin Award for their efforts.

Yup, what ever happened to compassion and the exploratory spirit.?

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 09:02:10 -0500, "Jimmy Galvin"
wrote:

You can not possibly believe that there was "exploratory spirit" involved
here. He was not blazing new frontiers.

As it would have been a record setting flight, yes he would have been
setting new frontiers. The man has flown around the world twice now,
if for nothing more than self satisfaction, then so be it.

It was simply a publicity stunt that

People climb Mt Everest just for the accomplishment. There is nothing
wrong with that.

was only meant as a means of self promotion. Not one person on this planet
would have benefited other than himself had he pulled it off. He screwed up
by not being prepared and it is up to him to bail himself out.

Many, many times people end up in similar situations here in the
states, but some one comes to the rescue. No, they aren't record
setting flights, but high winds have forced landings at airports where
services were not to be found.

Suddenly finding your self in "unforecast" bad weather and having to
land at an airport with nothing more than a telephone and no heat in
the very small terminal building that is no more than a shed leaves a
pilot feeling overwhelmed. Been there and done that. Called FSS who
still thought the weather was as forecast.

Landing on an icy runway at an unattended airport far from home only
to have the nose wheel break... Happened to one of our members...
Fortunately their cell phone worked and they had a directory of
members in that area. They were stuck for a couple of days. One of
the guys out there took the nose wheel off his LongEZ so they could
get out. No one was obligated, but offering a part of your own
airplane goes a bit beyond offering gas.

Fortunately most pilots and most people have more compassion than the
NSF although there are a few narrow minded ones who can't understand
how any one could get into trouble paying attention. It doesn't
matter how well you plan, **** happens.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Return address modified due to dumb virus checkers


"Roger Halstead" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 02:26:37 +0000,
(Robert Bonomi) wrote:

In article ,
ET wrote:
"Jimmy Galvin" wrote in
:

You can offer all apologies all you want but only for yourself. Don't
talk for me. I feel that he took a chance for glory, self promotion,
stupidity, or whatever and ended up with his tit caught in the
wringer. It is not up to me and my tax dollars to bail his sorry ass
out of the jamb he inflected on himself. This goes for all those fools
that climb mountains, trek through caves, or go exploring in the woods
relying on a GPS with 1/2 dead batteries to guide them along. They
should all just be left to their own devices and hopefully receive a
Darwin Award for their efforts.

Yup, what ever happened to compassion and the exploratory spirit.?

You can offer all apologies all you want but only for yourself. Don't
talk for me. I feel that he took a chance for glory, self promotion,
stupidity, or whatever and ended up with his tit caught in the
wringer. It is not up to me and my tax dollars to bail his sorry ass
out of the jamb he inflected on himself. This goes for all those fools
that climb mountains, trek through caves, or go exploring in the woods
relying on a GPS with 1/2 dead batteries to guide them along. They
should all just be left to their own devices and hopefully receive a
Darwin Award for their efforts.

Sounds like your idea of a good time is to sit on your fat ass and
do nothing. People with attitudes like yours are worthless. I hope
next time you need help you tell the people that come to help you
that you do not want their help because through your own stupidity
your ass is so fat you cannot fit through the door to go out into life
and enjoy it.

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 09:02:10 -0500, "Jimmy Galvin"
wrote:




You can offer all apologies all you want but only for yourself. Don't
talk for me. I feel that he took a chance for glory, self promotion,
stupidity, or whatever and ended up with his tit caught in the
wringer. It is not up to me and my tax dollars to bail his sorry ass
out of the jamb he inflected on himself. This goes for all those fools
that climb mountains, trek through caves, or go exploring in the woods
relying on a GPS with 1/2 dead batteries to guide them along. They
should all just be left to their own devices and hopefully receive a
Darwin Award for their efforts.

Sounds like your idea of a good time is to sit on your fat ass and
do nothing. People with attitudes like yours are worthless. I hope
next time you need help you tell the people that come to help you
that you do not want their help because through your own stupidity
your ass is so fat you cannot fit through the door to go out into life
and enjoy it.

In article ,
"Jimmy Galvin" wrote:

You can not possibly believe that there was "exploratory spirit" involved
here. He was not blazing new frontiers. It was simply a publicity stunt that
was only meant as a means of self promotion. Not one person on this planet
would have benefited other than himself had he pulled it off. He screwed up
by not being prepared and it is up to him to bail himself out.



Oh, give us a break, Jimmy!

The bureaucrats at McMurdo are simply being jerks of the first order!
How many people on this planet benefit from such obstinate behavior?
They should allow him to get 80 gallons of fuel, get his weather reports
and get going! How difficult is that to do?

I am getting sick and tired of Jimmy's sanctimonious acting as an
apologist for NSA -- they are proving to be nothing but a bunch of
useless bureaucrats, with no compassion or sense of real-world existence.

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:15:59 GMT, Orval Fairbairn
wrote:

In article ,

I am getting sick and tired of Jimmy's sanctimonious acting as an
apologist for NSA -- they are proving to be nothing but a bunch of
useless bureaucrats, with no compassion or sense of real-world existence.

I *think* you mean "NSF", the National Science Foundation that is the US's
interest in Antarctica. The "NSA" is another kettle of fish entirely....

NSF: http://www.nsf.gov
NSA: http://www.nsa.gov

BTW, I happened to read further on that book by the ex-Navy C-130 pilot:
The gasoline shipped to the Antarctic for the snow machines *does* have
anti-freezing additives. However, since Johanson may have built his fuel
system to handle alcohol, since he was planning on buying fuel all around
the world.

Ron Wanttaja

"Ron Wanttaja" wrote ...
BTW, I happened to read further on that book by the ex-Navy C-130 pilot:
The gasoline shipped to the Antarctic for the snow machines *does* have
anti-freezing additives. However, since Johanson may have built his fuel
system to handle alcohol, since he was planning on buying fuel all around
the world.

Ron,

As base commander, do you sell him snowmobile gas for the return trip? He
wants it and the plane may (or may not) be legal to use it under certain
circumstances , but don't you have to accept legal liability for selling him
non-aviation fuel? Particularly on a trip that's entirely over water in
very cold conditions. If Johanson didn't make it home wouldn't there be
entire legions of lawyers waiting to sue the US Government for supplying him
the wrong type of fuel? Or would it be better to say "There's a supply ship
here in a month. Ship the plane home that way."

How much research has been done in using autogas in airplanes in antartic
conditions?

Rich

entire legions of lawyers waiting to sue the US Government for supplying him
the wrong type of fuel?

Johanson's machine is the Ozzie equivalent of experimental, amateur
built (they recently copied the US regs on that), and more or less, he
can probably burn what he wants.

As for alcohol, as I understand it, the effects of ethyl alcohol are
confined to possible rubber (real and synthetic) deterioration. That
doesn't happen instantaneously, and I bet he could refuel with any fuel
of suitable octane, launch, and then purge the fuel system at a later stop.

As for suing folks, I don't think Jon's that kind of guy. I've met him
several times, and he's got a whole lot of class, something that many
RAHers would do well to emulate.

Ed Wischmeyer

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 15:17:24 -0700, Ed Wischmeyer
wrote:

entire legions of lawyers waiting to sue the US Government for supplying him
the wrong type of fuel?

Johanson's machine is the Ozzie equivalent of experimental, amateur
built (they recently copied the US regs on that), and more or less, he
can probably burn what he wants.

As for alcohol, as I understand it, the effects of ethyl alcohol are
confined to possible rubber (real and synthetic) deterioration. That
doesn't happen instantaneously, and I bet he could refuel with any fuel
of suitable octane, launch, and then purge the fuel system at a later stop.

I agree he could legally run alcohol-laced auto-fuel. Perhaps it wouldn't
cause problems in the short term. But there's a *lot* of very cold, wet,
water between Antarctica and New Zealand. Not where I'd want to
experiment.

Years ago, one of the guys in the Fly Baby club inadvertently put gasohol
in the airplane. I just flew it for a bit, landed and put in "pure" gas,
then repeated the process the same day. Goal was to get the alcohol
diluted as quickly as possible. Same might have worked for Johanson.

As for suing folks, I don't think Jon's that kind of guy. I've met him
several times, and he's got a whole lot of class, something that many
RAHers would do well to emulate.

Unfortunately, government and corporate risk managers don't make their
decisions on whether a given person might sue them, they base them on
whether they *could* get sued.

Personally, I think Johanson's legitimacy as a long-distance aviator is
thoroughly established. I think the NSF should have agreed to help.
There's already Antarctic tourism both by plane and by sea, it's not like
they'd be setting some sort of precedent.

Ron Wanttaja