WWGC.

On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 12:32:37 PM UTC+2, krasw wrote:
perjantai 17. tammikuuta 2020 8.47.08 UTC+2 krasw kirjoitti:
Hundreds of people around the world are trying to follow the scores and then we see on scoreboard "unsportsmanlike behaviour" with penaltys that actually change scores in every class, even one medalist is dropped to 4th place.

AND NOT A WORD OF EXPLANATION. Just business as usual. Here are some nice pictures from the grid.

And now people are asking about this via their FB page and yes you guessed it, they are deleting comments.

Well this is awkward:

https://segelflug.aero/blog/blog/202...ns-sportiness/

Google translated:

"Now back to the tracking systems:

One of them was tried out here in the competition and enabled all pilots to be shown with a delay of 15 minutes. At the end of the flight, this was reduced to 0 min.

Here is an example from the club class of the last day of the classification. The tracking time is shown at the top right. This picture then appears 15 minutes later on our displays.

Unfortunately, it now turned out that the Australian team, represented by *********, used the "raw data" for their pilots without delay.

The team captains rated this as "unsporting behavior". In the following hours there were four protests from different teams, the outcome of which we wait and then publish. (First of all, there was a point deduction of 250 points for every Australian pilot on the last day of the evaluation).

Our opinion is: "We don't just see the bypassing of the time delay as individual, sporty trifles. It affects all gliding sports in terms of fairness and sportiness, which we are committed to."

At 10:48 17 January 2020, krasw wrote:
On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 12:32:37 PM UTC+2, krasw wrote:
perjantai 17. tammikuuta 2020 8.47.08 UTC+2 krasw kirjoitti:
Hundreds of people around the world are trying to follow the
scores
and=
then we see on scoreboard "unsportsmanlike behaviour" with
penaltys that
a=
ctually change scores in every class, even one medalist is dropped
to 4th
p=
lace.
=20
AND NOT A WORD OF EXPLANATION. Just business as usual.
Here are some
ni=
ce pictures from the grid.
=20
And now people are asking about this via their FB page and yes
you
guesse=
d it, they are deleting comments.

Well this is awkward:

https://segelflug.aero/blog/blog/2020/01/17/what-means-
sportiness/

Google translated:

"Now back to the tracking systems:

One of them was tried out here in the competition and enabled all
pilots
to=
be shown with a delay of 15 minutes. At the end of the flight, this
was
re=
duced to 0 min.

Here is an example from the club class of the last day of the
classificatio=
n. The tracking time is shown at the top right. This picture then
appears
1=
5 minutes later on our displays.

Unfortunately, it now turned out that the Australian team,
represented by
*=
********, used the "raw data" for their pilots without delay.

The team captains rated this as "unsporting behavior". In the
following
hou=
rs there were four protests from different teams, the outcome of
which we
w=
ait and then publish. (First of all, there was a point deduction of
250
poi=
nts for every Australian pilot on the last day of the evaluation).

Our opinion is: "We don't just see the bypassing of the time delay
as
indiv=
idual, sporty trifles. It affects all gliding sports in terms of fairness
a=
nd sportiness, which we are committed to."



All goes back to what we want from a WGC? - the sport seems to
have 'morphed' from one where it was predominately individual
against individual using very little external aids into one where it
seems team flying and external team direction using sophisticated
technology as become the norm, if the team can afford it. IGC needs
not to be lead by the manufacturers and larger well funded
European teams -which unfortunately its seems is too often the
case.

On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 10:30:04 AM UTC-5, Paul T wrote:
At 10:48 17 January 2020, krasw wrote:
On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 12:32:37 PM UTC+2, krasw wrote:
perjantai 17. tammikuuta 2020 8.47.08 UTC+2 krasw kirjoitti:
Hundreds of people around the world are trying to follow the
scores
and=
then we see on scoreboard "unsportsmanlike behaviour" with
penaltys that
a=
ctually change scores in every class, even one medalist is dropped
to 4th
p=
lace.
=20
AND NOT A WORD OF EXPLANATION. Just business as usual.
Here are some
ni=
ce pictures from the grid.
=20
And now people are asking about this via their FB page and yes
you
guesse=
d it, they are deleting comments.

Well this is awkward:

https://segelflug.aero/blog/blog/2020/01/17/what-means-
sportiness/

Google translated:

"Now back to the tracking systems:

One of them was tried out here in the competition and enabled all
pilots
to=
be shown with a delay of 15 minutes. At the end of the flight, this
was
re=
duced to 0 min.

Here is an example from the club class of the last day of the
classificatio=
n. The tracking time is shown at the top right. This picture then
appears
1=
5 minutes later on our displays.

Unfortunately, it now turned out that the Australian team,
represented by
*=
********, used the "raw data" for their pilots without delay.

The team captains rated this as "unsporting behavior". In the
following
hou=
rs there were four protests from different teams, the outcome of
which we
w=
ait and then publish. (First of all, there was a point deduction of
250
poi=
nts for every Australian pilot on the last day of the evaluation).

Our opinion is: "We don't just see the bypassing of the time delay
as
indiv=
idual, sporty trifles. It affects all gliding sports in terms of fairness
a=
nd sportiness, which we are committed to."



All goes back to what we want from a WGC? - the sport seems to
have 'morphed' from one where it was predominately individual
against individual using very little external aids into one where it
seems team flying and external team direction using sophisticated
technology as become the norm, if the team can afford it. IGC needs
not to be lead by the manufacturers and larger well funded
European teams -which unfortunately its seems is too often the
case.

Let the well funded Europeans run WGCs, makes American victories sweeter.

On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 2:48:24 AM UTC-8, krasw wrote:
On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 12:32:37 PM UTC+2, krasw wrote:
perjantai 17. tammikuuta 2020 8.47.08 UTC+2 krasw kirjoitti:
Hundreds of people around the world are trying to follow the scores and then we see on scoreboard "unsportsmanlike behaviour" with penaltys that actually change scores in every class, even one medalist is dropped to 4th place.

AND NOT A WORD OF EXPLANATION. Just business as usual. Here are some nice pictures from the grid.

And now people are asking about this via their FB page and yes you guessed it, they are deleting comments.

Well this is awkward:

https://segelflug.aero/blog/blog/202...ns-sportiness/

Google translated:

"Now back to the tracking systems:

One of them was tried out here in the competition and enabled all pilots to be shown with a delay of 15 minutes. At the end of the flight, this was reduced to 0 min.

Here is an example from the club class of the last day of the classification. The tracking time is shown at the top right. This picture then appears 15 minutes later on our displays.

Unfortunately, it now turned out that the Australian team, represented by *********, used the "raw data" for their pilots without delay.

The team captains rated this as "unsporting behavior". In the following hours there were four protests from different teams, the outcome of which we wait and then publish. (First of all, there was a point deduction of 250 points for every Australian pilot on the last day of the evaluation).

Our opinion is: "We don't just see the bypassing of the time delay as individual, sporty trifles. It affects all gliding sports in terms of fairness and sportiness, which we are committed to."

Now that the information is out, it seems a fair penalty. Unfortunate for the pilots, impossible to know the degree of complicity there, if any. I'd feel like a pretty big idiot right now if I was the coach of Jo Davis. This took her off the podium at a world championship. That will sting.
The advantage of cheating was used (to whatever degree) every day of the contest and so to me the penalty now seems appropriate. That said I really have no idea, I'm not a contest pilot, but it would equate to about a 20 point penalty per day, eliminating any real likelyhood of winning, which it should.
Seems obvious to me that any reasonably honest soul can see that hacking the tracking info is unfair play, and would obviously be illegal. The 15 min.. delay is there for obvious reasons. It's a soaring contest, not an IT contest. It doesn't need to be written down anywhere to be enforced. It's cheating.
And it seems there is a larger and larger group of people that are able to come up with justifications for what is obviously that.

On Friday, 17 January 2020 20:11:52 UTC+2, wrote:

Now that the information is out, it seems a fair penalty. Unfortunate for the pilots, impossible to know the degree of complicity there, if any. I'd feel like a pretty big idiot right now if I was the coach of Jo Davis. This took her off the podium at a world championship. That will sting.
The advantage of cheating was used (to whatever degree) every day of the contest and so to me the penalty now seems appropriate. That said I really have no idea, I'm not a contest pilot, but it would equate to about a 20 point penalty per day, eliminating any real likelyhood of winning, which it should.
Seems obvious to me that any reasonably honest soul can see that hacking the tracking info is unfair play, and would obviously be illegal. The 15 min. delay is there for obvious reasons. It's a soaring contest, not an IT contest. It doesn't need to be written down anywhere to be enforced. It's cheating.
And it seems there is a larger and larger group of people that are able to come up with justifications for what is obviously that.

True, it was a fair penalty and this is going to be an important precedent.

"Ground controlling" the pilots is something that whole team has to bear the responsibility, not only the guy on the ground telling relaying info. Medal was lost because of the penalty, but it might as well be won because of cheating.

Doping race horses, throwing a boxing match, stealing baseball signals,
and now this.Â* Whoda thunk it?

On 1/17/2020 12:09 PM, krasw wrote:
On Friday, 17 January 2020 20:11:52 UTC+2, wrote:
Now that the information is out, it seems a fair penalty. Unfortunate for the pilots, impossible to know the degree of complicity there, if any. I'd feel like a pretty big idiot right now if I was the coach of Jo Davis. This took her off the podium at a world championship. That will sting.
The advantage of cheating was used (to whatever degree) every day of the contest and so to me the penalty now seems appropriate. That said I really have no idea, I'm not a contest pilot, but it would equate to about a 20 point penalty per day, eliminating any real likelyhood of winning, which it should.
Seems obvious to me that any reasonably honest soul can see that hacking the tracking info is unfair play, and would obviously be illegal. The 15 min. delay is there for obvious reasons. It's a soaring contest, not an IT contest. It doesn't need to be written down anywhere to be enforced. It's cheating.
And it seems there is a larger and larger group of people that are able to come up with justifications for what is obviously that.
True, it was a fair penalty and this is going to be an important precedent.

"Ground controlling" the pilots is something that whole team has to bear the responsibility, not only the guy on the ground telling relaying info. Medal was lost because of the penalty, but it might as well be won because of cheating.

--
Dan, 5J

Huge resources are committed to WGC. I think the organizers and the sanctioning body owe the competitors a fair competition at a minimum.

225 pts means you aren't serious about the infraction, and you look forward to more of the same.

T8

Huge resources are committed to WGC. I think the organizers and the
sanctioning body owe the competitors a fair competition at a minimum.

225 pts means you aren't serious about the infraction, and you look forward
to more of the same.

Congratulations to Sarah Arnold !and every other competitor who abided by the
rules, explicit and implicit)!!!

Opining as someone 100% ignorant of the rules as they apply to this sort of
cheating, were I king, the entire team woulda been disqualified, end of
discussion. Kinda-sorta related, can anyone advise me where I can go to have
my moral compass inexpensively removed?

Bob W.

It cost one pilot a win, that’s a pretty fair sanction.

At 22:21 17 January 2020, Charlie Quebec wrote:
It cost one pilot a win, that=E2=80=99s a pretty fair sanction.

So having looked at the rules, I can't see anything which forbids this in
this competition. No 'hacking' was involved. There are lots of freely
available sites that show the live data.

The UK competition rules were changed last year to specifically forbid
this, but the rules of this comp don't appear to have done so. I wonder
what the US rules say?