WWGC.

On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 8:56:23 PM UTC-5, Tom BravoMike wrote:

So the solution is... to stop fighting it. Make the teams on the ground be part of the 'team flying'

That's what's been going on for the last decade. Check around. There's much history here. The technology arms race led to a ground controlled sport that many find unsatisfying. IGC now trying to find the way back to a more individual sport. Rules enforcement, as we observe, is problematic.

T8

On Saturday, January 18, 2020 at 8:34:08 AM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 8:56:23 PM UTC-5, Tom BravoMike wrote:

So the solution is... to stop fighting it. Make the teams on the ground be part of the 'team flying'

That's what's been going on for the last decade. Check around. There's much history here. The technology arms race led to a ground controlled sport that many find unsatisfying. IGC now trying to find the way back to a more individual sport. Rules enforcement, as we observe, is problematic.

T8

The IGC is responding to pilots and teams that are demanding actions to reduce the effect of ground controlled glider competition. Without action, some countries have indicated that their future participation is questionable.
Delayed tracking has been needed for some time.
My view is that IGC should respond in a very harsh way to the offending team management to send a message that this kind if cheating will not be tolerated.
It is sad that the performances of the Aussie ladies will be tarnished because we can't know if their performances were fair.
FWIW
UH

On Saturday, January 18, 2020 at 9:36:53 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Saturday, January 18, 2020 at 8:34:08 AM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 8:56:23 PM UTC-5, Tom BravoMike wrote:

So the solution is... to stop fighting it. Make the teams on the ground be part of the 'team flying'

That's what's been going on for the last decade. Check around. There's much history here. The technology arms race led to a ground controlled sport that many find unsatisfying. IGC now trying to find the way back to a more individual sport. Rules enforcement, as we observe, is problematic.

T8

The IGC is responding to pilots and teams that are demanding actions to reduce the effect of ground controlled glider competition. Without action, some countries have indicated that their future participation is questionable.
Delayed tracking has been needed for some time.
My view is that IGC should respond in a very harsh way to the offending team management to send a message that this kind if cheating will not be tolerated.
It is sad that the performances of the Aussie ladies will be tarnished because we can't know if their performances were fair.
FWIW
UH

@UH - Agree. I was particularly disappointed that with the significant 'home-field' advantage that Australia already had, in terms of local knowledge, access to resources beyond that of other teams (a phone call away, not a continent), no massive body time-zone shift at the start, no move from Northern winter to scorching summer temps/humidity, no massive cost shipping worries, etc., someone felt the need to do this. Looking at it from the other side, perhaps being on the other end of that equation so much, given that the vast majority of WGCs are in Europe, some thought it might be justifiable. This doesn't seem like the Aussies I know.

At 13:34 18 January 2020, Tango Eight wrote:
Rules enforcement, as we observe, is problematic.


A lifetime ban from all gliding competition for those found 'operating
outside the rules' might assist in this - i.e. zero tolerance.

On Saturday, January 18, 2020 at 7:34:08 AM UTC-6, Tango Eight wrote:
On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 8:56:23 PM UTC-5, Tom BravoMike wrote:

So the solution is... to stop fighting it. Make the teams on the ground be part of the 'team flying'

That's what's been going on for the last decade. Check around. There's much history here. The technology arms race led to a ground controlled sport that many find unsatisfying. IGC now trying to find the way back to a more individual sport. Rules enforcement, as we observe, is problematic.

T8

Somehow nobody objects to 'ground controlled' world records - see the Perlan project. And it is a sort of an ongoing world competition - with great expenses involved. Just a thought..

On Saturday, January 18, 2020 at 1:50:37 PM UTC-5, Tom BravoMike wrote:
On Saturday, January 18, 2020 at 7:34:08 AM UTC-6, Tango Eight wrote:
On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 8:56:23 PM UTC-5, Tom BravoMike wrote:

So the solution is... to stop fighting it. Make the teams on the ground be part of the 'team flying'

That's what's been going on for the last decade. Check around. There's much history here. The technology arms race led to a ground controlled sport that many find unsatisfying. IGC now trying to find the way back to a more individual sport. Rules enforcement, as we observe, is problematic.

T8

Somehow nobody objects to 'ground controlled' world records - see the Perlan project. And it is a sort of an ongoing world competition - with great expenses involved. Just a thought..

How about air controlled?
I understand one altitude record was set using the owners jet to scout the lift areas.
That said, I think record flying is much different than competition in this respect.
UH

On Saturday, January 18, 2020 at 10:50:37 AM UTC-8, Tom BravoMike wrote:
On Saturday, January 18, 2020 at 7:34:08 AM UTC-6, Tango Eight wrote:
On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 8:56:23 PM UTC-5, Tom BravoMike wrote:

So the solution is... to stop fighting it. Make the teams on the ground be part of the 'team flying'

That's what's been going on for the last decade. Check around. There's much history here. The technology arms race led to a ground controlled sport that many find unsatisfying. IGC now trying to find the way back to a more individual sport. Rules enforcement, as we observe, is problematic.

T8

Somehow nobody objects to 'ground controlled' world records - see the Perlan project. And it is a sort of an ongoing world competition - with great expenses involved. Just a thought..

The difference is not the level of technology or expense being used, it is the level of deception between one competitor and the next.

On Sat, 18 Jan 2020 10:50:34 -0800, Tom BravoMike wrote:

Somehow nobody objects to 'ground controlled' world records - see the
Perlan project. And it is a sort of an ongoing world competition - with
great expenses involved. Just a thought..

Record setting is a totally different game. No technology is ruled out
and it can be individual or a group effort.

I was surprised to see how high Perlan 2 was being towed since they got
use of the Grob towplane, so looked at the rules for the absolute gliding
altitude record. It turns out you can tow as high as you like and the
flight counts as a record provided the glider climbs at least another
5000m (16350 ft) after release.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

So,Australia got 'caught' using freely availible live tracking information from the web. Nobody knows who else was using it, it was just a few clicks away. It is always more likely an English speaking country gets caught since most people know what they are saying.

Does it mean that anybody that has ever used live tracking through which ever legal way gets penalised? Setting up flarm receivers would definitely be illegal. I wonder how many comps will have different winners in retrospect..

Big difference, the OGN tracking cannot identify gliders if they have flarm in stealth mode. The official tracking was ONLY publicly available via the 15 minute delay, someone found or knew of a backdrop and used it. I’m disgusted team management did this.