Jon Johanson stranded in Antartica....

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:15:59 GMT, Orval Fairbairn
wrote:

In article ,

I am getting sick and tired of Jimmy's sanctimonious acting as an
apologist for NSA -- they are proving to be nothing but a bunch of
useless bureaucrats, with no compassion or sense of real-world existence.

I *think* you mean "NSF", the National Science Foundation that is the US's
interest in Antarctica. The "NSA" is another kettle of fish entirely....

NSF: http://www.nsf.gov
NSA: http://www.nsa.gov

BTW, I happened to read further on that book by the ex-Navy C-130 pilot:
The gasoline shipped to the Antarctic for the snow machines *does* have
anti-freezing additives. However, since Johanson may have built his fuel
system to handle alcohol, since he was planning on buying fuel all around
the world.

Ron Wanttaja

"Ron Wanttaja" wrote ...
BTW, I happened to read further on that book by the ex-Navy C-130 pilot:
The gasoline shipped to the Antarctic for the snow machines *does* have
anti-freezing additives. However, since Johanson may have built his fuel
system to handle alcohol, since he was planning on buying fuel all around
the world.

Ron,

As base commander, do you sell him snowmobile gas for the return trip? He
wants it and the plane may (or may not) be legal to use it under certain
circumstances , but don't you have to accept legal liability for selling him
non-aviation fuel? Particularly on a trip that's entirely over water in
very cold conditions. If Johanson didn't make it home wouldn't there be
entire legions of lawyers waiting to sue the US Government for supplying him
the wrong type of fuel? Or would it be better to say "There's a supply ship
here in a month. Ship the plane home that way."

How much research has been done in using autogas in airplanes in antartic
conditions?

Rich

entire legions of lawyers waiting to sue the US Government for supplying him
the wrong type of fuel?

Johanson's machine is the Ozzie equivalent of experimental, amateur
built (they recently copied the US regs on that), and more or less, he
can probably burn what he wants.

As for alcohol, as I understand it, the effects of ethyl alcohol are
confined to possible rubber (real and synthetic) deterioration. That
doesn't happen instantaneously, and I bet he could refuel with any fuel
of suitable octane, launch, and then purge the fuel system at a later stop.

As for suing folks, I don't think Jon's that kind of guy. I've met him
several times, and he's got a whole lot of class, something that many
RAHers would do well to emulate.

Ed Wischmeyer

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 15:17:24 -0700, Ed Wischmeyer
wrote:

entire legions of lawyers waiting to sue the US Government for supplying him
the wrong type of fuel?

Johanson's machine is the Ozzie equivalent of experimental, amateur
built (they recently copied the US regs on that), and more or less, he
can probably burn what he wants.

As for alcohol, as I understand it, the effects of ethyl alcohol are
confined to possible rubber (real and synthetic) deterioration. That
doesn't happen instantaneously, and I bet he could refuel with any fuel
of suitable octane, launch, and then purge the fuel system at a later stop.

I agree he could legally run alcohol-laced auto-fuel. Perhaps it wouldn't
cause problems in the short term. But there's a *lot* of very cold, wet,
water between Antarctica and New Zealand. Not where I'd want to
experiment.

Years ago, one of the guys in the Fly Baby club inadvertently put gasohol
in the airplane. I just flew it for a bit, landed and put in "pure" gas,
then repeated the process the same day. Goal was to get the alcohol
diluted as quickly as possible. Same might have worked for Johanson.

As for suing folks, I don't think Jon's that kind of guy. I've met him
several times, and he's got a whole lot of class, something that many
RAHers would do well to emulate.

Unfortunately, government and corporate risk managers don't make their
decisions on whether a given person might sue them, they base them on
whether they *could* get sued.

Personally, I think Johanson's legitimacy as a long-distance aviator is
thoroughly established. I think the NSF should have agreed to help.
There's already Antarctic tourism both by plane and by sea, it's not like
they'd be setting some sort of precedent.

Ron Wanttaja

Ed Wischmeyer wrote in message ...
entire legions of lawyers waiting to sue the US Government for supplying him
the wrong type of fuel?

As for suing folks, I don't think Jon's that kind of guy. I've met him
several times, and he's got a whole lot of class, something that many
RAHers would do well to emulate.

Ed,

With all respect, if you or I or "The World's Classiest Pilot"
(whoever he or she may be) bites it while flying, whether or not
someone gets sued will have little to do with our class or what
kind of guy we are.

It will have everything to do with factors beyond our control,
mostly our surviving kin and whatever decisions they might make
under the combined influence of grief and legal advice.

FWIW,
Sydney