Libelle suitability for beginners

At 13:54 17 February 2020, krasw wrote:
On Sunday, 16 February 2020 12:30:04 UTC+2, Paul T wrote:
"Gliding Safety" by Derek Piggott, A&C Black (1991) page 109.
Std Libelle not recommended for "inexperienced pilots", e.g.,
unless
you've already made a few field landings and are an "above
average"
pilot.

I would recommend Std.Libelle to any inexperienced pilot. Just fly it
close=
to the airfield for few dozen hours, practice side slip and short
landings=
.. Then you are not inexperienced anymore. The glider itself is
pleasant to
=
fly and not dangerous at all. Most glass ship from 60's had weak
airbrakes,=
you learn to adjust your landing pattern accordingly after few flights.
I
=
dont understand what's the deal with avoiding some types because
you can
no=
t do anything you want right away without any training or practise.


Well I just wonder just how many types you have flown compared to
what Derrick had, and how many ex-students you have seen go
through the far hedge in one.....

On Monday, 17 February 2020 21:30:05 UTC+2, Paul T wrote:

Well I just wonder just how many types you have flown compared to
what Derrick had, and how many ex-students you have seen go
through the far hedge in one.....

Argumentum ab auctoritate.

In my opinion the air breaks are a non-issue. I bought a half share in a Libelle and started flying it with maybe 8 landings in a 1-26 and 2 in a junior. Other then that all my training was done in 2-33. As long as you are aware that it doesn't come down as fast as a 2-33 then landing isn't to bad. It may not have as strong air breaks as more modern gliders but as long as you do your first few landings in big airport so you can get a feel for the glide slope it's not bad at all.

In my opinion the air brakes are a non-issue. I bought a half share in a Libelle and started flying it with maybe 8 landings in a 1-26 and 2 in a junior. Other then that all my training was done in 2-33. As long as you are aware that it doesn't come down as fast as a 2-33 then landing isn't to bad. It may not have as strong air brakes as more modern gliders but as long as you do your first few landings in big airport so you can get a feel for the glide slope it's not bad at all.

I would not recommend a Standard Libelle for inexperienced pilots
if the launch method is winching. Has a tendency to stall at
relatively high speeds, and viciously if one does not pay attention.
Otherwise great glider.

On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 19:18:48 +0000, Eric Munk wrote:

I would not recommend a Standard Libelle for inexperienced pilots if the
launch method is winching. Has a tendency to stall at relatively high
speeds, and viciously if one does not pay attention.
Otherwise great glider.

If you're signed off on winching then launching a Libelle that way is
benign PROVIDED THAT you've been carefully briefed by somebody that's
current on type and, preferably, also on that winch.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 11:51:06 AM UTC-5, Wyll Surf Air wrote:
In my opinion the air brakes are a non-issue. I bought a half share in a Libelle and started flying it with maybe 8 landings in a 1-26 and 2 in a junior. Other then that all my training was done in 2-33. As long as you are aware that it doesn't come down as fast as a 2-33 then landing isn't to bad. It may not have as strong air brakes as more modern gliders but as long as you do your first few landings in big airport so you can get a feel for the glide slope it's not bad at all.

Good Point...

I had no trouble transitioning to a Libelle 201 from a 1-26. Back then (1970) there were no fiberglass two-seaters but I had a few flights in a K13 along the way. I had been flying our 1-26 for about three years, however, with a few (OK, a lot of) off-field landings.

Everyone has mentioned the smaller divebrakes, which makes the ability to slip on landing attractive if not necessary at times. It does slip beautifully.

One item that hasn't been mentioned is the offset stick, which means when your hand is bounced up/down, it feeds in forward/aft stick. Experienced Libelle drivers keep their forearms braced on their thighs in turbulent conditions or at high speed.

The buffet that was mentioned I experienced numerous times, especially when carrying water, in our 201 with balsa wings, upper/lower surface brakes, and (importantly) the smaller horizontal tail. I always thought it was the tail in the wake of the fuselage or possibly the tail itself separating. It was very benign on ours and made it easy to thermal up inside most other gliders with the stick in my lap and the tail buffeting on and off. IIRC, the later 201s I flew with the larger tail didn't provide the same tactile feedback.

FWIW, I was 6'3" and thin. I fit perfectly with an old Navy backpack chute and the tall canopy (there are two sizes).

I loved our 201 and still think it doesn't get the respect it deserves. At the TSA Standard Nats a few years ago, a young man in a 201 seemed to be able to keep up with almost everyone. We all got used to looking down and seeing that ##### Libelle still there at the next thermal.

Yes, the tail boom is not as robust as those of modern gliders. I knew multiple guys who broke theirs in ground loops. I ground looped ours in tall grass once with no damage, fortunately, but I looked back very quickly when the glider came to rest to make sure it was still attached.

Neiman, check your logbook. My father, Joe Bearden, flew a 201 we owned briefly at the 1977 Standard Class Nats with "WE" as the contest ID. I don't know the serial number but it would be fun to know if it's the same glider. We drove him crazy referring to WE as "War Eagle", the battle cry of Auburn University's sports teams. My father was an Alabama grad so he took these things seriously.

Chip Bearden
JB

On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 8:51:06 AM UTC-8, Wyll Surf Air wrote:
In my opinion the air brakes are a non-issue. I bought a half share in a Libelle and started flying it with maybe 8 landings in a 1-26 and 2 in a junior. Other then that all my training was done in 2-33. As long as you are aware that it doesn't come down as fast as a 2-33 then landing isn't to bad. It may not have as strong air brakes as more modern gliders but as long as you do your first few landings in big airport so you can get a feel for the glide slope it's not bad at all.

Here's Wyll's first landing in the 201 Libelle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsjU2hrgApo