The Decline of Soaring Awards

On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 14:29:35 -0700, son_of_flubber wrote:

Maybe I'm the only pilot put off the entire badge system by the 5 hour
duration flight. I'd surely get dull and bored after ~3.5 hours and
flying dull increases risk. The benefit that I'd subjectively assign to
a longer flight does not offset the risk that I subjectively perceive.

Its a useful marker: in a lower moderate performance glider, say Libelle
to Pegase, under UK or New England conditions, its going to take you 4-5
hours to cover crack 300km (Gold distance or Diamond Goal flight).

It was also useful in convincing me that I *could* stay up that long.
That, by itself, makes it a good personal goal regardless of the Silver
qualification.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

There is some merit to the "nest egg" comment. Follow me here. The sucessful clubs in the world (almost all European) have enjoyed decades of equity growth in both equipment and experience. These are true clubs that pool their resources and have a significantly greater experience to offer members and prospective members. Conversely in the USA we share almost nothing financially or in knowledge.
A new member must be willing to pay through the nose to train in a P.O.S. with an "instructor" who's never left the pattern. IF they earn their certificate they need to bootstrap a cross country program on their own or retake the same check ride twice and spend their days in the back of a 2-33 as an "instructor" themselves. The system doesn't work. Save your stories about how if you did it anyone can do it. The general public isn't buying it, so I'm not either.
On the bright side there is enough experience to tap into, the proper aircraft exist. What is needed is people giving back. I see the entitlement issue differently. Recently a friend claimed to "play in his own sand box" meaning he had his own glider and was insulated from the problems soaring faced.. That is the entitlement! "I got mine, **** everyone else!" Until we pool our resources and give back our FAILED sport will continue to circle the drain in the USA.

On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 16:32:43 -0700, dtarmichael wrote:

There is some merit to the "nest egg" comment. Follow me here. The
sucessful clubs in the world (almost all European) have enjoyed decades
of equity growth in both equipment and experience. These are true clubs
that pool their resources and have a significantly greater experience to
offer members and prospective members. Conversely in the USA we share
almost nothing financially or in knowledge.
A new member must be willing to pay through the nose to train in a
P.O.S. with an "instructor" who's never left the pattern. IF they earn
their certificate they need to bootstrap a cross country program on
their own or retake the same check ride twice and spend their days in
the back of a 2-33 as an "instructor" themselves. The system doesn't
work. Save your stories about how if you did it anyone can do it. The
general public isn't buying it, so I'm not either.
On the bright side there is enough experience to tap into, the proper
aircraft exist. What is needed is people giving back. I see the
entitlement issue differently. Recently a friend claimed to "play in his
own sand box" meaning he had his own glider and was insulated from the
problems soaring faced. That is the entitlement! "I got mine, ****
everyone else!" Until we pool our resources and give back our FAILED
sport will continue to circle the drain in the USA.

Well put, sir!

I'm well aware that I gave myself a good start by joining one of the
larger UK clubs, which had then, and still has, an all-glass fleet and a
large airfield. The two additional things that I didn't know enough to
even consider are that the club has always had a very strong XC culture
and that all our instructors were then, and are now, all XC pilots
themselves. So, its assumed that when you solo, you'll convert to a
single seater almost immediately, will join one of the duty rosters in
return for all the free instruction you've been given, and will have your
beady eyes fixed on getting Bronze and Silver badges as the rite of
passage into becoming a regular XC pilot.

I have some awareness of the differences between clubs on the two sides
of the pond: I've flown at Front Royal, Avenal, Williams, Minden and
Boulder. Of these, Avenal felt most familiar.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

On Tuesday, March 24, 2020 at 7:32:45 PM UTC-4, wrote:
There is some merit to the "nest egg" comment. Follow me here. The sucessful clubs in the world (almost all European) have enjoyed decades of equity growth in both equipment and experience. These are true clubs that pool their resources and have a significantly greater experience to offer members and prospective members. Conversely in the USA we share almost nothing financially or in knowledge.
A new member must be willing to pay through the nose to train in a P.O.S. with an "instructor" who's never left the pattern. IF they earn their certificate they need to bootstrap a cross country program on their own or retake the same check ride twice and spend their days in the back of a 2-33 as an "instructor" themselves. The system doesn't work. Save your stories about how if you did it anyone can do it. The general public isn't buying it, so I'm not either.
On the bright side there is enough experience to tap into, the proper aircraft exist. What is needed is people giving back. I see the entitlement issue differently. Recently a friend claimed to "play in his own sand box" meaning he had his own glider and was insulated from the problems soaring faced. That is the entitlement! "I got mine, **** everyone else!" Until we pool our resources and give back our FAILED sport will continue to circle the drain in the USA.

Fortunately, my experience in US clubs has been rather different than what you describe.

My current club's growing, and we're all about XC, we give back. There's no real magic here (that is to say: you could do it too).

Our secret weapon, if we have one, is our HpH 304c. It's a big draw to guys looking for a way to get into a high performance XC machine without breaking the bank. That machine is a motivator. Student pilots will work their tails off to get rated and get qualified to fly this delightful bird... then once they do, the motivation goes up still another notch and the hook is often well and truly set. The vast majority of our "304 graduates" buy their own gliders, often within a year or two of taking their first flight in the 304. Joining our club costs $400 initiation and $400 annual dues and another 70-something for the SSA. Last year, tows were $38 to 2K and instruction is free.

None of this looks like failure to us.

Evan Ludeman
Post Mills Soaring Club
Post Mills, VT

Someone mentioned the 5 hour requirement (the “big sit�) for Silver. I agree it’s silly because it is the same 5 hour requirement for Gold! It should have been maybe 3 hours for Silver.

The Five Hour in many ways is actually the biggest accomplishment of the Silver Badge. That's the tough nut to crack and it takes a lot of effort and perseverance to get it.

To do it on thermals is tough. My club requires it to be done on thermals as flying the ridge back and forth for five hours is simply an endurance contest.

But on thermals it requires a wide range of skills. For one, you need to pick your day. After you do your 5-hour, you'll find it isn't so hard to fly many hour flights. Most XC flights are 3-5 hours in length. But many flights just happen to end up around 4.3 to 4.8 hours. It just seems at least in the east coast that 5 hours is a special threshold on pure thermal days.

So you learn to pay attention to the weather forecasts and distinguish what days are good.

And when you get out to the airport, you have to time your launch just right. Too early and you fall out and miss your window. Too late and you fall out on the back end of the day. Many pilots have gotten 4.9 hours while trying their 5 hour duration.

During the day, conditions will usually cycle in and out over certain areas.. You can't just stay in one place. You will probably need to fly 5 miles away for a while and then go 10 miles from that spot, to the other limit of gliding distance of your airport. You may have one or two critical points that will decide whether you stay up or fall out. Maybe you even have a 1500ft save or two in that process.

There's a lot of decision-making that goes into it.

After you do it, you KNOW you have the skill and confidence to go cross country. You know that getting out of gliding distance on a two hour flight in the "meat" of the day is totally manageable. You know that when you get stuck in a thermal at 1500ft, working hard and climbing at .2 knots, that you have a lot of mental energy left in the tank. The Silver Distance feels "easy"!

Uniformly, the 5-hour is one of those things that people who don't have it, complain about its logic and usefulness. And then the people who do it and then progress to their Silver Distance, appreciate it for the wonderful accomplishment that it is.

My club requires a 5 hour endurance before taking our club ships cross country and it works very well as a training milestone. I think it's a great experience and a great goal for advancing gliderpilots to aim at.

All the best,
Daniel

On 3/25/2020 8:22 AM, Daniel Sazhin wrote:
The Five Hour in many ways is actually the biggest accomplishment of the
Silver Badge. That's the tough nut to crack and it takes a lot of effort
and perseverance to get it.

Bulk of good post snipped to save electrons in this time of global crisis...)

My club requires a 5 hour endurance before
taking our club ships cross country and it works very well as a training
milestone. I think it's a great experience and a great goal for advancing
gliderpilots to aim at.

All the best, Daniel

Consulting the Way Back When Machine, my first - and only - intentional,
semi-planned, Big Sit died with the day at around 4 hrs 45 minutes in my
club's 1-26. The good news was it was about 4 hours longer than I'd guessed
was likely before I took the tow, the bad news...well, use your imaginations!

So not long thereafter, licensed, proud 1/3 owner of my instructor's kit-built
1-26 with another of his recently-former students, there we wuz in eastern
Ohio flying in a Labor Day fun contest. 1st Day - my straw won, I finished an
~30-mile task (ridiculously high) after only ~3 hours (12mph IIRC!), whupping
the reigning World Champeen 1-26 pilot (Ted Teach - he landed out, along with
about 1/3 of the field), and I had an in-flight brainstorm. I radioed my
instructor (surely an instructor would have chops with the contest big wigs,
no?) to see if it would be OK for me, instead of landing immediately, to
remain aloft to bag my 5 hours (that's how high I finished!). It was. I did.

Point being, circumstances depending, it doesn't HAVE to be 'a Big Sit.'

Bob W.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 07:22:06 -0700, Daniel Sazhin wrote:

The Five Hour in many ways is actually the biggest accomplishment of the
Silver Badge. That's the tough nut to crack and it takes a lot of effort
and perseverance to get it.

Agreed.

To do it on thermals is tough. My club requires it to be done on
thermals as flying the ridge back and forth for five hours is simply an
endurance contest.

But when flying over flat land, thats all you've got.

Uniformly, the 5-hour is one of those things that people who don't have
it, complain about its logic and usefulness. And then the people who do
it and then progress to their Silver Distance, appreciate it for the
wonderful accomplishment that it is.

In the UK you need to get Bronze before tackling Silver, Bronze being 50
solo flights with two exceeding 30 minutes (winch) or 60mins (aerotow)
followed by flying and written tests.You also need the Bronze XC
endorsement (selection, field landing and navigation exercises, all done
in an Scheibe SF-25 at my club).

Our instructors will insist on you having Bronze with XC endorsement
before tackling Silver Distance, but won't stop you doing longer flights
while getting Bronze, so a lot of us got our Silver Height and Silver
duration while working on Bronze.

So, for most of us, Silver Distance becomes our first solo XC flight.
Mini-triangles count as local soaring since they stay within 5 miles of
home and a lot of our new pilots will have gone XC in two-seaters, often
during competitions, before soloing.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

I believe when I did my 5 hours, was before the bronze badge existed, and I did it in an ASW-20 while doing gold distance/diamond goal.
Eastern US.
Thermals.
Film (no logger/GPS).
One film was cut mid flight, one was processed in a mall type color machine.... the Replogle barograph got me the 5 hours, but not distance.

A year or so later, I did the same flight during a drought in the northeast....took about 3 hours on thermals, but I got them.

Yes, since early '70's, our field has had CFI-G's that do XC as well as contests. We tend to shove peeps out and/or lead them out.
We always have people going somewhere, from kids to a "ripe old age".

XC/badge flying is not for everyone, but usually good to keep people in the sport for more than a year or so.

Doing five hours while hovering around the airport is like flagpole sitting (at least at Moriarty!) It just shows you have a large bladder and a small imagination :-) Don't mean to be snarky, but western US soaring conditions are exceptional.

I've done lots of 5+ hour flights in hang gliders and sailplanes, with flight distances of 150+ km in hang gliders and a personal best of 745 km in my sailplane. I don't have ANY badges.

Gold Hat: "Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinkin' badges!" (From the film, "Treasure of the Sierra Madre," Alfonso Bedoya as "Gold Hat," 1948)