Contact Approach

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...


No, the reported ground visibility MUST be at least 1 statute mile. The
pilot must request the contact approach and the airport must have a
functioning IAP as well.


A local field with part-time tower (Class D airspace when tower is open) has
restricted areas in close proximity. When these areas are active, ATC will
not approve the SIAPs. There is no notation on the approach plate, nor any
NOTAM, that says the approaches are not allowed when the restricted areas
are active. There is no AWOS/ASOS reporting over the radio or telephone,
but recently the field began putting METARs into the system. I don't know
if the tower personnel are certified weather observers or not, so I don't
know if their observations qualify as "reported" visibility, nor do I know
if the METAR visibility report qualifies as "reported ground visibility". I
was hoping someone knew of some rule that allowed a substitute for an
official ground visibility report. There is certified weather observing at
a larger field five miles away, but I don't suppose that would do.

When the restricted areas are active, there is no way to get back into the
field in IMC other than a visual or contact approach. MVA is 2400 MSL,
about 1700 AGL. Well, there may be two. One is to fly the ILS into the
adjacent Class C airspace, then cancel and maneuver around the restricted
areas at 1000 AGL if cloud conditions permit, which would require 3 miles
visibility. The other possibility is that there is a PAR approach available
sometimes. I haven't asked if they will approve it when the restricted
areas are active. The problem, I think, is the missed approach. Circling
is not allowed east of the runway due to terrain, and for the two published
IAPs, the missed goes on the west side, which is where one of the restricted
areas is. Since there is no published missed for the PAR approach, or for a
visual or contact approach, I don't know what they will do. I have flown a
visual into the field when the ceiling was overcast at 2400 MSL, but it was
a stretch to say I had the field in sight. A contact approach would have
been better.

I think I just need to go talk to these people.

Stan Prevost wrote:

I think I just need to go talk to these people.

That sounds right.

FWIW, I've encountered another place where nearby restricted airspace determines
whether or not you'll get an approach, W95, Ocracoke Island, NC.

Whichever approach you get, either the approach course or the missed approach
bumps up against R5306A. To compound the problem, the only approach facility is
Washington Center, and once you get down to approach altitudes, they have
neither radar nor comm coverage.

Nice to have the approaches published, but so far I've never been able to get
center to clear me for one of them.

"Dave Butler" wrote in message
news:1108059477.955309@sj-nntpcache-3...

That sounds right.

FWIW, I've encountered another place where nearby restricted airspace
determines whether or not you'll get an approach, W95, Ocracoke Island,
NC.

Whichever approach you get, either the approach course or the missed
approach bumps up against R5306A. To compound the problem, the only
approach facility is Washington Center, and once you get down to approach
altitudes, they have neither radar nor comm coverage.

Nice to have the approaches published, but so far I've never been able to
get center to clear me for one of them.


According to the plates these approaches are handled by Cherry Point
Approach Control. The sectional says to contact Cherry Point Approach for
clearance through the restricted area. Have you ever tried that?

"Stan Prevost" wrote in message
...

A local field with part-time tower (Class D airspace when tower is open)
has restricted areas in close proximity. When these areas are active, ATC
will not approve the SIAPs. There is no notation on the approach plate,
nor any NOTAM, that says the approaches are not allowed when the
restricted areas are active. There is no AWOS/ASOS reporting over the
radio or telephone, but recently the field began putting METARs into the
system. I don't know if the tower personnel are certified weather
observers or not, so I don't know if their observations qualify as
"reported" visibility, nor do I know if the METAR visibility report
qualifies as "reported ground visibility".


If these observations didn't qualify as "reported" visibility they wouldn't
be in the system.



I was hoping someone knew of
some rule that allowed a substitute for an official ground visibility
report.


There is no substitute.



There is certified weather observing at a larger field five miles
away, but I don't suppose that would do.


Nope.



When the restricted areas are active, there is no way to get back into the
field in IMC other than a visual or contact approach. MVA is 2400 MSL,
about 1700 AGL. Well, there may be two. One is to fly the ILS into the
adjacent Class C airspace, then cancel and maneuver around the restricted
areas at 1000 AGL if cloud conditions permit, which would require 3 miles
visibility. The other possibility is that there is a PAR approach
available sometimes. I haven't asked if they will approve it when the
restricted areas are active. The problem, I think, is the missed
approach. Circling is not allowed east of the runway due to terrain, and
for the two published IAPs, the missed goes on the west side, which is
where one of the restricted areas is. Since there is no published missed
for the PAR approach, or for a visual or contact approach, I don't know
what they will do. I have flown a visual into the field when the ceiling
was overcast at 2400 MSL, but it was a stretch to say I had the field in
sight. A contact approach would have been better.


What field is this?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
.net...

If these observations didn't qualify as "reported" visibility they
wouldn't be in the system.


Does it matter how old the report is?


What field is this?

KHUA

"Stan Prevost" wrote in message
...

Does it matter how old the report is?


Old reports don't remain available in the system. If a current hourly
observation is not entered to replace the previous hourly observation at the
specified time a request for that site's weather observation will show only
the time of the scheduled observation and an "M" to indicate it is missing.



KHUA


Yeah, I'd say the restricted area is in close proximity. Adjacent to the
runway is certainly close proximity. But this is a military field and
according to my not-so-current information prior permission is required to
operate there. One would think if permission to operate there can be had
then permission to enter the restricted area could he had as well.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
k.net...



KHUA


Yeah, I'd say the restricted area is in close proximity. Adjacent to the
runway is certainly close proximity. But this is a military field and
according to my not-so-current information prior permission is required to
operate there. One would think if permission to operate there can be had
then permission to enter the restricted area could he had as well.


Prior permission is required to land, but not to make a low approach.
Civilian pilots not based there frequently fly the PAR approach under VFR.
We have a very active flying club there and none of our airplanes have
permission to enter the restricted areas when they are active. From what I
have observed, the only aircraft that can enter the active restricted areas
are those engaged in the activities going on in the areas.

In addition to the adjacent area to the west, there is another a mile or two
to the south.

Due to the nature of the activities in these restricted areas, it is not
unusual for them to be active during periods when an instrument approach is
necessary to get into the field. There are published hours, but in practice
they are not activated except when necessary.

Since there is no published miss for the PAR approach, I don't know if they
will allow it with active restricted areas or not. Need to ask them.

"Stan Prevost" wrote in message ...
....
A local field with part-time tower (Class D airspace when tower is open) has restricted areas in close
proximity. When these areas are active, ATC will not approve the SIAPs. There is no notation on the
approach plate, nor any NOTAM, that says the approaches are not allowed when the restricted areas are active.
There is no AWOS/ASOS reporting over the radio or telephone, but recently the field began putting METARs into
the system. I don't know if the tower personnel are certified weather observers or not, so I don't know if
their observations qualify as "reported" visibility, nor do I know if the METAR visibility report qualifies
as "reported ground visibility". I was hoping someone knew of some rule that allowed a substitute for an
official ground visibility report. There is certified weather observing at a larger field five miles away,
but I don't suppose that would do.

When the restricted areas are active, there is no way to get back into the field in IMC other than a visual
or contact approach. MVA is 2400 MSL, about 1700 AGL. Well, there may be two. One is to fly the ILS into
the adjacent Class C airspace, then cancel and maneuver around the restricted areas at 1000 AGL if cloud
conditions permit, which would require 3 miles visibility. The other possibility is that there is a PAR
approach available sometimes. I haven't asked if they will approve it when the restricted areas are active.
The problem, I think, is the missed approach. Circling is not allowed east of the runway due to terrain, and
for the two published IAPs, the missed goes on the west side, which is where one of the restricted areas is.
Since there is no published missed for the PAR approach, or for a visual or contact approach, I don't know
what they will do. I have flown a visual into the field when the ceiling was overcast at 2400 MSL, but it
was a stretch to say I had the field in sight. A contact approach would have been better.

I think I just need to go talk to these people.



What airport is that?

Thanks,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

"John Clonts" wrote in message
...

What airport is that?


KHUA