The aerodynamics of a towplane in a kiting glider situation

On Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 6:43:52 PM UTC-4, Hightime wrote:
On Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 2:30:24 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Dont forget people Towing is not that dangerous and there are plenty of Happy towpilots out there and not just happy helicopter pilots

Hightime, you're kidding right? Towing is not that dangerous? Please tell that to the poor chap who died recently in California. Or to the tow pilot at Front Royal Virginia or any of the tow pilots who have perished due to a mistake on the part of the glider pilot in tow only to then be amplified by the failure of a device meant to save their life. Towing is not "that" dangerous until it become THAT dangerous.

It's not THAT dangerous until someone in back of the tow plane makes a big, stupid mistake. It's not THAT dangerous until a poorly trained student (in my case) or an inattentive, distracted instructor or one of the many squirrels who abound in the soaring community SCREW UP. Then it becomes THAT dangerous and for the record, how do you define "that?"

Plenty of Happy tow pilots? I'm sure there are and they will be happy until the s--t hits the fan and they find themselves a second or two from the end of their life, happy will go out the window. The fact of the matter is we don't know what we don't know and what we don't know can kill us. Every tow has the potential to end in disaster. Towing

Towing is not that dangerous, what a dumb f--king statement to make. Flying helicopters is dangerous too but not THAT dangerous? The difference is that I am responsible for my mistakes.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot

No Its not dangerous, I have been part of a club for many years , we have high standards of training, so no student or pilot ever does this, its trained out of them from a very early on . When I solo them Im confident in their abilities. Sure it can happen by a pudknoker but its not statistically "dangerous" to tow a glider. Its statistically dangerous to fly helicopters , come back to towing you will be much safer

I remember well my first day sitting in a college statistics class, the Prof said he could make any group of numbers mean anything he wished them to. To say that flying tow is "statistically" not dangerous denies the fact that each tow brings with it the potential for disaster.

Tell the chap who died recently about your "statistics." I'm sure he would feel better or perhaps better still, tell his family. Curious as to how you would word that.

I'm always amused when "instructors" claim how well their students are prepared. As my dad would say, if you do something long enough, bad things will happen. I knew a guy in Vietnam who was shot down on his first mission and another guy who was shot down on his last. You never know when your number is up.

Helicopters have their own "dangerous" characteristics, difference is I'm not dependent on another pilot hooked up to me not making a mistake. If I screw up it's on me. I'm willing to take that chance.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot.

Walt, no offense friend, but I would rather take my chances as a tow pilot than fly in choppers lol. Way too many moving parts. Last time I was in one they kicked me out on a zip line (army rotc).

On Friday, May 22, 2020 at 8:53:40 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Walt, no offense friend, but I would rather take my chances as a tow pilot than fly in choppers lol. Way too many moving parts. Last time I was in one they kicked me out on a zip line (army rotc).


No offense taken. I've had close calls in helicopters and they were all as a result of my inexperience. The key is to keep flying, keep putting in inputs to get the outcome you are seeking. Learning to hover is a humbling experience. The helicopter I will assure you takes a much finer touch than any fixed wing airplane I have ever flown. Everything that leaves the ground is dangerous, gravity is a constant as is human failure.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot.

On Friday, May 22, 2020 at 6:13:28 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, May 22, 2020 at 8:53:40 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Walt, no offense friend, but I would rather take my chances as a tow pilot than fly in choppers lol. Way too many moving parts. Last time I was in one they kicked me out on a zip line (army rotc).


No offense taken. I've had close calls in helicopters and they were all as a result of my inexperience. The key is to keep flying, keep putting in inputs to get the outcome you are seeking. Learning to hover is a humbling experience. The helicopter I will assure you takes a much finer touch than any fixed wing airplane I have ever flown. Everything that leaves the ground is dangerous, gravity is a constant as is human failure.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot.

When I first started flying helicopters, one of the two finest pilots I have had the honor of flying with told me it takes about 500 hours to be a competent helicopter pilot, he was right. Of course all of our flying was in the mountains, little less time in flat lands. For a decade I lived in a 600 sq.ft. condo with a Murphy bed, attached to a 6,000 sq. ft. hangar. My ex-wife had told me I needed to get my priorities right, so I did. In that hangar was a MD520 N with a much stronger than spec engine (spec'd at 450 shaft horse power, but I got 484 shaft horse power, that is a lot). I flew nearly every day and in that decade I put 2,166 hours on that particular helicopter plus about another 200 hours in other helicopters. Just an incredible experience. I always felt at home. Only had one, well maybe a few other exciting experiences. I did have an inflight fire, NiCad runaway at sunset over a deep dark canyon. Worst part of that was getting stalked by a mountain lion. I did get caught in actual severe turbulence in rotor(from wave) turbulence. I did swap paint or almost swapped paint with a United MD 80 out of Burbank in September of 2003. I looked for that incident in the NTSB database but couldn't find it. Very interesting back story on that, but the RD version, I meet an angel that day and she saved myself and 109 soul on the other airplane. Both myself and the United pilot filed NASA reports. NASA called me and said "we are not supposed to do this, but would you like the number of the other pilot. (I have been meaning to write up that story). I learned a lot about life and flying while strapped to that bird. A sad note, my ex-helicopter went to Canada and now a R44 has her N-number, so sad.