Private airport or small field for landout?

"Land in the dirt, you won't get hurt" has, so far, worked well for me.

Farmers don't get worked up about crop damage when it's not even an inch high.

With private strips, width can be a deal/glider breaker. I passed up one in the book because the stated width looked a tight squeeze. And I once saw the green (corn) stains on the tips of an 18m self launcher. The owner had the look of a narrow escape on him. The private strips I have used were known to my local club as wide enough for gliders. The owners have been hospitable and happy to talk airplanes. There's the rare one that won't allow aerotow retrieve because of liability considerations.

You can compare the width to power pole spacing.

No matter how hard you study the local fields and airports, the day will likely come when you have to evaluate fields from the air. It's been recommended for aspiring XC pilots to evaluate possible fields from the air and drive over for a look.

I spent 29 years with hang gliders, which have much better "short field" capabilities than sailplanes. After a LOT of outlandings in really questionable fields, I was amazed at he number of other pilots who looked at those same fields from the ground and said, "No Problem!"

Believe me, a field you are walking on looks a LOT bigger than it does from the air.

Ask any newbie Naval Aviator looking down at the deck of an aircraft carrier for the first time.

On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 7:44:14 PM UTC-7, George Haeh wrote:
"Land in the dirt, you won't get hurt" has, so far, worked well for me.

Farmers don't get worked up about crop damage when it's not even an inch high.

With private strips, width can be a deal/glider breaker. I passed up one in the book because the stated width looked a tight squeeze. And I once saw the green (corn) stains on the tips of an 18m self launcher. The owner had the look of a narrow escape on him. The private strips I have used were known to my local club as wide enough for gliders. The owners have been hospitable and happy to talk airplanes. There's the rare one that won't allow aerotow retrieve because of liability considerations.

You can compare the width to power pole spacing.

No matter how hard you study the local fields and airports, the day will likely come when you have to evaluate fields from the air. It's been recommended for aspiring XC pilots to evaluate possible fields from the air and drive over for a look.

I fly in the mountains of the west. Very few fields where I fly, but where I grew up in Idaho, I would not want to land those lowed fields. I used to work pea harvest and there would be dirt clods, hard dirt clods that could take your landing gear out and break your back. So "land in the dirt and you won't get hurt" is again, a guideline, not a rule. Lots of plowed fields are well plowed many are not.

"Land in the dirt, you won't get hurt" has, so far, worked well for me.
Snip...

...So "land in the dirt and you won't get hurt" is again, a guideline, not
a rule. Lots of plowed fields are well plowed many are not.

Heh. There's a difference between plowed(-only) and plowed-n-disked. This
"Duh!" moment was driven home to me on short final when - approaching a
plowed-only field - I belatedly realized the plowed-n-disked one adjacent,
with its (barely visible) furrows slightly catty-corner to the minimal breeze,
was the considerably better one. Moments later the plowed-only field had its
biggest-yet clod standing atop it...the new King of Clods!

Good thing I was flying a 1-26...torn fabric is a lot easier to fix than
broken gear, fuselage or (youch) coccyx!

Bob - never seen Elvis - W.

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Jonathan St. Cloud wrote on 5/28/2020 5:40 AM:
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 7:44:14 PM UTC-7, George Haeh wrote:
"Land in the dirt, you won't get hurt" has, so far, worked well for me.

Farmers don't get worked up about crop damage when it's not even an inch high.

With private strips, width can be a deal/glider breaker. I passed up one in the book because the stated width looked a tight squeeze. And I once saw the green (corn) stains on the tips of an 18m self launcher. The owner had the look of a narrow escape on him. The private strips I have used were known to my local club as wide enough for gliders. The owners have been hospitable and happy to talk airplanes. There's the rare one that won't allow aerotow retrieve because of liability considerations.

You can compare the width to power pole spacing.

No matter how hard you study the local fields and airports, the day will likely come when you have to evaluate fields from the air. It's been recommended for aspiring XC pilots to evaluate possible fields from the air and drive over for a look.

I fly in the mountains of the west. Very few fields where I fly, but where I grew up in Idaho, I would not want to land those lowed fields. I used to work pea harvest and there would be dirt clods, hard dirt clods that could take your landing gear out and break your back. So "land in the dirt and you won't get hurt" is again, a guideline, not a rule. Lots of plowed fields are well plowed many are not.

"You don't get hurt in the dirt" is best applied in eastern Washington State,
where the dirt is more like face powder and sand, and plowing doesn't produce the
kinds of clumps/clods you see in Kansas and other places with "real" dirt and lots
more moisture. It's also a pretty good mantra in much of Idaho and eastern Oregon.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 10:24:25 AM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Jonathan St. Cloud wrote on 5/28/2020 5:40 AM:
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 7:44:14 PM UTC-7, George Haeh wrote:
"Land in the dirt, you won't get hurt" has, so far, worked well for me..

Farmers don't get worked up about crop damage when it's not even an inch high.

With private strips, width can be a deal/glider breaker. I passed up one in the book because the stated width looked a tight squeeze. And I once saw the green (corn) stains on the tips of an 18m self launcher. The owner had the look of a narrow escape on him. The private strips I have used were known to my local club as wide enough for gliders. The owners have been hospitable and happy to talk airplanes. There's the rare one that won't allow aerotow retrieve because of liability considerations.

You can compare the width to power pole spacing.

No matter how hard you study the local fields and airports, the day will likely come when you have to evaluate fields from the air. It's been recommended for aspiring XC pilots to evaluate possible fields from the air and drive over for a look.

I fly in the mountains of the west. Very few fields where I fly, but where I grew up in Idaho, I would not want to land those lowed fields. I used to work pea harvest and there would be dirt clods, hard dirt clods that could take your landing gear out and break your back. So "land in the dirt and you won't get hurt" is again, a guideline, not a rule. Lots of plowed fields are well plowed many are not.

"You don't get hurt in the dirt" is best applied in eastern Washington State,
where the dirt is more like face powder and sand, and plowing doesn't produce the
kinds of clumps/clods you see in Kansas and other places with "real" dirt and lots
more moisture. It's also a pretty good mantra in much of Idaho and eastern Oregon.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

No, I think applies virtually anywhere. A plowed field will be free of any large rocks (they damage farm equipment), is fairly uniform for proper irrigation, won't have deep drainage ditches, barbed wire fences, chunks of discarded metal, bushes, irrigation pipes, etc. Next on the list is a field with a low crop and dirt is visible between the crop rows. A much worse option is a pasture where all of the above is a possibility if not a likelihood.

I once landed on what turned out to be an abandoned air stip south of Air Sailing in an ASW19. While in the pattern I could see that the air strip was narrow with high berms on both sides. I didn't think my wings would clear the berms so I landed on one of the berms (which turned out to be the case).. It worked out ok, but it was an eye-opener on how deceiving these strips are at altitude.

Tom

On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 3:28:55 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 10:24:25 AM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Jonathan St. Cloud wrote on 5/28/2020 5:40 AM:
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 7:44:14 PM UTC-7, George Haeh wrote:
"Land in the dirt, you won't get hurt" has, so far, worked well for me.

Farmers don't get worked up about crop damage when it's not even an inch high.

With private strips, width can be a deal/glider breaker. I passed up one in the book because the stated width looked a tight squeeze. And I once saw the green (corn) stains on the tips of an 18m self launcher. The owner had the look of a narrow escape on him. The private strips I have used were known to my local club as wide enough for gliders. The owners have been hospitable and happy to talk airplanes. There's the rare one that won't allow aerotow retrieve because of liability considerations.

You can compare the width to power pole spacing.

No matter how hard you study the local fields and airports, the day will likely come when you have to evaluate fields from the air. It's been recommended for aspiring XC pilots to evaluate possible fields from the air and drive over for a look.

I fly in the mountains of the west. Very few fields where I fly, but where I grew up in Idaho, I would not want to land those lowed fields. I used to work pea harvest and there would be dirt clods, hard dirt clods that could take your landing gear out and break your back. So "land in the dirt and you won't get hurt" is again, a guideline, not a rule. Lots of plowed fields are well plowed many are not.

"You don't get hurt in the dirt" is best applied in eastern Washington State,
where the dirt is more like face powder and sand, and plowing doesn't produce the
kinds of clumps/clods you see in Kansas and other places with "real" dirt and lots
more moisture. It's also a pretty good mantra in much of Idaho and eastern Oregon.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

No, I think applies virtually anywhere. A plowed field will be free of any large rocks (they damage farm equipment), is fairly uniform for proper irrigation, won't have deep drainage ditches, barbed wire fences, chunks of discarded metal, bushes, irrigation pipes, etc. Next on the list is a field with a low crop and dirt is visible between the crop rows. A much worse option is a pasture where all of the above is a possibility if not a likelihood.

I once landed on what turned out to be an abandoned air stip south of Air Sailing in an ASW19. While in the pattern I could see that the air strip was narrow with high berms on both sides. I didn't think my wings would clear the berms so I landed on one of the berms (which turned out to be the case). It worked out ok, but it was an eye-opener on how deceiving these strips are at altitude.

Tom

Any real world data? How many of you have broken a glider in a plowed field? They can be very inviting and many are very good landing sites, but know your area. I have both seen and worked in plowed fields that I would not attempt to land in. And I have seen some beautiful fields.

Out here in the west (read "stinkin' desert") many "plowed fields" are crop circles, and while the sprinkler system is a hazard, at least it is visible. What will get your attention are the deep circular ruts left by said sprinkler system. That and the (often) circular furrows, although many farmers ("Agrarians," as Pez D. Spencer calls them) plow in parallel lines and let the sprinkler deal with making its own path. What can be annoying, if not downright dangerous, is having to land with the furrows, as opposed to at an angle, no matter what the crosswind component may be. Some crops need very deep furrows, and landing across the pattern is going to be extremely rough and potentially dangerous.

So far, in 20 years of sailplane XC and over 1,200 flights, I have "landed out" less than 10 times, and all but one were on a runway. Some were dirt, but they were all "real" runways. The only one that wasn't USED to be a runway, but it had degraded into just a rough dirt line in the weeds.

airport or small field? depends...

Scary question if it means you arrive at an unknown site without enough energy to provide some time to inspect and think through a landing.

If you don't have a known site/plan pre-chosen, how to land depends on which looks like a better plan when you get there. How big, how rough, slope, doable approach, how get a trailer to it. As a bonus, can I get a tow out of there. Double bonus if there is beer and BBQ on the ground. That needs some time to sort out.

Knock on wood, so far I've been able to get to each outlanding with enough energy to circle to inspect and if I can circle with zero sink, maybe extra inspect, move landing plan, or climb out.

I don't think this is so much a matter of luck as being willing to sometimes divert sideways or backwards from task early when low to get to a place more likely to work out.

Once this meant choosing between three equal fields. One with a locked gate, one with cows and one freshly harvested with empty rows pointing to a nice open gate. Retrieve was about 50 feet.

Once this meant zero sink circling/inspecting over a beautifully groomed site next to a road. A second circle showed it to be a horse farm behind locked gates with a equally good place outside the gates which became the new best place and a source of enough lift to finish the day's task.

I'm not sure if airport or field is answerable. Instead of asking, try to get there with enough energy to provide the time to choose.

On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 4:36:25 PM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 3:28:55 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 10:24:25 AM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Jonathan St. Cloud wrote on 5/28/2020 5:40 AM:
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 7:44:14 PM UTC-7, George Haeh wrote:
"Land in the dirt, you won't get hurt" has, so far, worked well for me.

Farmers don't get worked up about crop damage when it's not even an inch high.

With private strips, width can be a deal/glider breaker. I passed up one in the book because the stated width looked a tight squeeze. And I once saw the green (corn) stains on the tips of an 18m self launcher. The owner had the look of a narrow escape on him. The private strips I have used were known to my local club as wide enough for gliders. The owners have been hospitable and happy to talk airplanes. There's the rare one that won't allow aerotow retrieve because of liability considerations.

You can compare the width to power pole spacing.

No matter how hard you study the local fields and airports, the day will likely come when you have to evaluate fields from the air. It's been recommended for aspiring XC pilots to evaluate possible fields from the air and drive over for a look.

I fly in the mountains of the west. Very few fields where I fly, but where I grew up in Idaho, I would not want to land those lowed fields. I used to work pea harvest and there would be dirt clods, hard dirt clods that could take your landing gear out and break your back. So "land in the dirt and you won't get hurt" is again, a guideline, not a rule. Lots of plowed fields are well plowed many are not.

"You don't get hurt in the dirt" is best applied in eastern Washington State,
where the dirt is more like face powder and sand, and plowing doesn't produce the
kinds of clumps/clods you see in Kansas and other places with "real" dirt and lots
more moisture. It's also a pretty good mantra in much of Idaho and eastern Oregon.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

No, I think applies virtually anywhere. A plowed field will be free of any large rocks (they damage farm equipment), is fairly uniform for proper irrigation, won't have deep drainage ditches, barbed wire fences, chunks of discarded metal, bushes, irrigation pipes, etc. Next on the list is a field with a low crop and dirt is visible between the crop rows. A much worse option is a pasture where all of the above is a possibility if not a likelihood.

I once landed on what turned out to be an abandoned air stip south of Air Sailing in an ASW19. While in the pattern I could see that the air strip was narrow with high berms on both sides. I didn't think my wings would clear the berms so I landed on one of the berms (which turned out to be the case). It worked out ok, but it was an eye-opener on how deceiving these strips are at altitude.

Tom

Any real world data? How many of you have broken a glider in a plowed field? They can be very inviting and many are very good landing sites, but know your area. I have both seen and worked in plowed fields that I would not attempt to land in. And I have seen some beautiful fields.

Yes, it's called the NTSB. Broken gliders end up in their database. Another possibility are contest reports, where landouts are common. If a competitor withdraws after a landout it is pretty likely that he/she damaged the glider.

Tom