Private airport or small field for landout?

At 23:36 28 May 2020, Jonathan St. Cloud

Any real world data? How many of you have broken a glider in a
plowed field? They can be very inviting and many are very good
landing sites, but know your area. I have both seen and worked in
plowed fields that I would not attempt to land in. And I have seen
some beautiful fields.

Jon, that is exactly the point - Real World - The real world is very
different in different places. We had a ton of broken gliders from
landing in plowed fields during the 1985 WGC in Italy. Over there
the soil is clay, and that summer was dry. The clay was so
compacted that the farmers used bulldozers to pull the plows
because the tractors weren't strong enough. The furrows were
sometimes a foot to 1.5 feet deep, and the clods that were tilled up
were large and like boulders. During practice, I landed in one that
had only 6" furrows, but was hard as brick. The jarring caused the
gear handle on my Discus-b to come out of the down detent, and
the gear collapsed, so I wound up sliding on my belly for a short
ways. Klaus Holighaus spent most of the night fixing the small
belly hole himself, and I flew the rest of the contest with a ~1ft
green spot on the belly. Dick Brandt made me a hard rubber wedge
to place in the gear handle track after the gear was lowered in order
to keep the gear handle from popping out again. Our coach, Walter
Neubert, had loaned his brand new ASW-20 to Henri Stouffs of
Belgium. Hernri absolutely totaled it out landing in a plowed field
with deeper furrows and bigger clods. The damage list went on and
on. The bottom line is that not all plowed fields are alike or
landable. It all depends on the the local area, the kind of soil, the
moisture content, the farming methods, the wx, etc. To try and
give someone universal advice that all plowed fields are good off
field landing options is just being way too short sighted for me.
You have to know the local agriculture at the time of year that you
are flying, and then qualify the off field landing options.

RO

On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 8:00:03 PM UTC-7, Michael Opitz wrote:
At 23:36 28 May 2020, Jonathan St. Cloud

Any real world data? How many of you have broken a glider in a
plowed field? They can be very inviting and many are very good
landing sites, but know your area. I have both seen and worked in
plowed fields that I would not attempt to land in. And I have seen
some beautiful fields.

Jon, that is exactly the point - Real World - The real world is very
different in different places. We had a ton of broken gliders from
landing in plowed fields during the 1985 WGC in Italy. Over there
the soil is clay, and that summer was dry. The clay was so
compacted that the farmers used bulldozers to pull the plows
because the tractors weren't strong enough. The furrows were
sometimes a foot to 1.5 feet deep, and the clods that were tilled up
were large and like boulders. During practice, I landed in one that
had only 6" furrows, but was hard as brick. The jarring caused the
gear handle on my Discus-b to come out of the down detent, and
the gear collapsed, so I wound up sliding on my belly for a short
ways. Klaus Holighaus spent most of the night fixing the small
belly hole himself, and I flew the rest of the contest with a ~1ft
green spot on the belly. Dick Brandt made me a hard rubber wedge
to place in the gear handle track after the gear was lowered in order
to keep the gear handle from popping out again. Our coach, Walter
Neubert, had loaned his brand new ASW-20 to Henri Stouffs of
Belgium. Hernri absolutely totaled it out landing in a plowed field
with deeper furrows and bigger clods. The damage list went on and
on. The bottom line is that not all plowed fields are alike or
landable. It all depends on the the local area, the kind of soil, the
moisture content, the farming methods, the wx, etc. To try and
give someone universal advice that all plowed fields are good off
field landing options is just being way too short sighted for me.
You have to know the local agriculture at the time of year that you
are flying, and then qualify the off field landing options.

RO

Well then I think that about settles it, as I posted 14 hours ago: "So "land in the dirt and you won't get hurt" is again, a guideline, not a rule." Lots of plowed fields are well plowed many are not. "

On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 8:00:03 PM UTC-7, Michael Opitz wrote:
At 23:36 28 May 2020, Jonathan St. Cloud

Any real world data? How many of you have broken a glider in a
plowed field? They can be very inviting and many are very good
landing sites, but know your area. I have both seen and worked in
plowed fields that I would not attempt to land in. And I have seen
some beautiful fields.

Jon, that is exactly the point - Real World - The real world is very
different in different places. We had a ton of broken gliders from
landing in plowed fields during the 1985 WGC in Italy. Over there
the soil is clay, and that summer was dry. The clay was so
compacted that the farmers used bulldozers to pull the plows
because the tractors weren't strong enough. The furrows were
sometimes a foot to 1.5 feet deep, and the clods that were tilled up
were large and like boulders. During practice, I landed in one that
had only 6" furrows, but was hard as brick. The jarring caused the
gear handle on my Discus-b to come out of the down detent, and
the gear collapsed, so I wound up sliding on my belly for a short
ways. Klaus Holighaus spent most of the night fixing the small
belly hole himself, and I flew the rest of the contest with a ~1ft
green spot on the belly. Dick Brandt made me a hard rubber wedge
to place in the gear handle track after the gear was lowered in order
to keep the gear handle from popping out again. Our coach, Walter
Neubert, had loaned his brand new ASW-20 to Henri Stouffs of
Belgium. Hernri absolutely totaled it out landing in a plowed field
with deeper furrows and bigger clods. The damage list went on and
on. The bottom line is that not all plowed fields are alike or
landable. It all depends on the the local area, the kind of soil, the
moisture content, the farming methods, the wx, etc. To try and
give someone universal advice that all plowed fields are good off
field landing options is just being way too short sighted for me.
You have to know the local agriculture at the time of year that you
are flying, and then qualify the off field landing options.

RO

But did anybody get hurt? I said "If you land in the dirt you won't get hurt" - I didn't say a thing about the glider. Of course, the glider is usually better off it doesn't hit a fence post or drainage ditch. On the other hand, landing in a pasture with a barbed wire fence will do surprisingly little damage to the glider (like a broken canopy), but might very well decapitate the pilot. You're NOT going to find a barbed wire fence in the middle of a plowed field. Which would you chose?

Tom

Here in the Northeast, I've had good luck with "land in hay, make your day". Ideal is recently mown and/or raked. as the mowers and tedders/rakes are only used in hospitable terrain. Obviously, baled but not collected is a problem. Lots of fields here have the hay baled and stacked/stored alongside the field, including the large, round bales wrapped in white plastic that look like huge marshmallows. When you see that, it's a reasonable bet that the field is kept in hay and should be landable.

One of my favorite landouts happened near Seneca lake where I was hanging on in weak lift between 800 and 1000 feet while the farmer cut my "airport" as I was grinding away. It was a nice, 2000 foot field with fairly tall grass, and when I got there the first pass was probably only a semi-span wide. After 2 passes I was pretty sure it was plenty wide, and by the time I was ready to land he was halfway through pass #3.

He was surprised to find an "airplane" in his field when he turned around to start pass #4, but he warmed up when I offered to help with some of the other chores while I waited for crew. He finished up and met me at the barn where he opened the fridge stocked with Yeungling. I sent him an SSA calendar for Christmas, and we got a nice card from him for several years after that.

P3



on Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 10:44:14 PM UTC-4, George Haeh wrote:
"Land in the dirt, you won't get hurt" has, so far, worked well for me.

Farmers don't get worked up about crop damage when it's not even an inch high.

With private strips, width can be a deal/glider breaker. I passed up one in the book because the stated width looked a tight squeeze. And I once saw the green (corn) stains on the tips of an 18m self launcher. The owner had the look of a narrow escape on him. The private strips I have used were known to my local club as wide enough for gliders. The owners have been hospitable and happy to talk airplanes. There's the rare one that won't allow aerotow retrieve because of liability considerations.

You can compare the width to power pole spacing.

No matter how hard you study the local fields and airports, the day will likely come when you have to evaluate fields from the air. It's been recommended for aspiring XC pilots to evaluate possible fields from the air and drive over for a look.