Pearl Harbor Defense

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ...
"Eunometic" wrote in message
om...


The German Type XXI u-boat had the an array sonar that was unusually
accurate and capable of ranging (and thereby plotting and evading
attacking ships) german hydrophones were based on passive arrays
electronicaly processed and distributed around the hull and were far
more accurate and sensitive than allied ones. Sonar ranging both
active and passive allowed the Type XXI to attack without use of
periscope.


In theory, in practise the vast majority of type XXI boats
built were of such poor quality that they were unfit for
service and only one ever went on patrol.

This of course delayed entry into service untill the defectice
building was remediated. However they formed the backbone of not only
the post war German navy but were extensively used by others.

Some XXI's were for example a long time in use
by:

France: U 2518 ("Roland Morillot", decomm. 1967)
Great Britain: U 2502, 2506, 2511, 3017, 3514
USSR: U 2529, 3035, 3041, 3515
USA: U 2513, 3008


The list of ships sunk by this type follows

Start of List
End of List

Not for lack of capabillity:

U 2511 (Korvettenkapitaen Adalbert SCHNEE) left Bergen at the end of
April
'45. On the next day she met a British Sub Hunter Group -- and was
detected
and attacked. But her sonar enabled her to plot the British movements
and
she escaped.

On May 4th she met a British group, the cruiser HMS Norfolk with her
escort.
They had been on the usual U-Boat alert, but didn't find U 2511.
Incidently
U 2511 was in a good position. Assuming, that Adalbert Schnee didn't
get his
oakleafs for nothing, he couldn't have missed a cruiser at 700m
distance,
but the BDU had already ordered to cease fire. Back in Bergen, the
Norfolk's officers didn't believe, they had been targeted, until, they
read the log book of U 2511.

Apart from their superb sonar, great speed, range and diving depth
these u-boats had secondary creeper drive opperated via 12 v belts
that made them essentialy undetectable at speeds of up to 6 knots.





Keith

"Joe Osman" wrote in message news:41519804

It wasn't Kimmel's job to run patrols. The Air Corps/USAAF got the sole
responsiblity for the aerial defense of the US in 1935. This allowed them
to
get more long range bombers. They didn't take the coastal defense
responsibility seriously. Their pilots were very poor at navigation and
didn't like to fly over water.


No sir, as the Joint Congressional Investigation clearly states

Quote

Under the Joint Coastal Frontier Defense Plan the following tasks of the
Army and Navy were recognized:

"a. JOINT TASK. To hold OAHU as a main outlying naval base, and to
control and protect shipping in the Coastal Zone.

"b. ARMY TASK. To hold OAHU against attacks by sea, land, and air
forces, and against hostile sympathizers; to support the naval forces.

"c. NAVY TASK. To patrol the Coastal Zone and to control and protect
shipping therein; to support the Army forces."

One of the most significant features of the plan was the assumption of
responsibility by the Navy for distant reconnaissance, a normal task of
the Army. In this regard, the plan provided: "The Commandant, Fourteenth
Naval District, shall provide for: * * * i. *Distant Reconnaissance*."
/Quote

http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/pha/congress/part_3.html#126

Keith

"Joe Osman" wrote in message news:41519804

It wasn't Kimmel's job to run patrols. The Air Corps/USAAF got the sole
responsiblity for the aerial defense of the US in 1935. This allowed them
to
get more long range bombers. They didn't take the coastal defense
responsibility seriously. Their pilots were very poor at navigation and
didn't like to fly over water.


No sir, as the Joint Congressional Investigation clearly states

Quote

Under the Joint Coastal Frontier Defense Plan the following tasks of the
Army and Navy were recognized:

"a. JOINT TASK. To hold OAHU as a main outlying naval base, and to
control and protect shipping in the Coastal Zone.

"b. ARMY TASK. To hold OAHU against attacks by sea, land, and air
forces, and against hostile sympathizers; to support the naval forces.

"c. NAVY TASK. To patrol the Coastal Zone and to control and protect
shipping therein; to support the Army forces."

One of the most significant features of the plan was the assumption of
responsibility by the Navy for distant reconnaissance, a normal task of
the Army. In this regard, the plan provided: "The Commandant, Fourteenth
Naval District, shall provide for: * * * i. *Distant Reconnaissance*."
/Quote

http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/pha/congress/part_3.html#126

Keith

"Eunometic" wrote in message
om...

In theory, in practise the vast majority of type XXI boats
built were of such poor quality that they were unfit for
service and only one ever went on patrol.

This of course delayed entry into service untill the defectice
building was remediated. However they formed the backbone of not only
the post war German navy but were extensively used by others.

Some XXI's were for example a long time in use
by:

France: U 2518 ("Roland Morillot", decomm. 1967)
Great Britain: U 2502, 2506, 2511, 3017, 3514
USSR: U 2529, 3035, 3041, 3515
USA: U 2513, 3008


There's a difference between evaulation and being
the backbone.

The fact is none of the type XXI's in US or RN services
were operational for very long and certainly didnt
form the backbone of the submarine force. The
USN carried out the GUPPY conversions while the
RN built the O & P classes


The list of ships sunk by this type follows

Start of List
End of List

Not for lack of capabillity:


Not being able to put to sea is usually considered
a sign of a lack of capability

Keith

There's a difference between evaulation and being
the backbone.

The fact is none of the type XXI's in US or RN services
were operational for very long and certainly didnt
form the backbone of the submarine force. The USN carried out the GUPPY
conversions while the
RN built the O & P classes

Yeah right,there is also a difference between inventing and copying (stealing)
a technology.
Right Mr.Willshaw?

From: Guy Alcala

I forget how the
takeover went in the case of the Marianas

Invasion, June, 1944. You are probably thinking of Guam. That was ceded to
the US by Spain as part of the Spanish-American War settlement. The Marianas
were sold by Spain to Germany in 1899 (along with the rest of their Micronesian
holdings--the Carolines, etc.) Japan seized them from Germany at the onset of
WWOne in 1914 and was confirmed in her possession by the victors of that war.
The US acquired Micronesia by conquest during WW2 and was confirmed in
possession (as trust territories) by UNO after the war.

Filipinos started to resist our takeover, they were relabeled
"insurgents" or "insurrectionists", and it took us another two years to
defeat
them. Moro uprisings continued to flare up for at least another 10
years

At one point at least a quarter of the entire US Army was engaged in supressing
the Filipino resistance. It was a major war.

While
the US attempt at European-style empire was (thankfully) relatively short, we
certainly had one.

After one brief infection, we seem to have developed immunity to the imperial
disease.
We did treat the Filipinos well (unlike the monstrous horrors imposed by the
Belgians on the Congolese in the same time frame), and by the 1920s were not
afraid to arm them and create a Filipino military force. The Filipinos were so
unafraid of their American "masters" that when the troops decided they didn't
like the pay scale the Americans offered, instead of grabbing their weapons,
revolting and starting a war, they went on strike.





Chris Mark

From: Guy Alcala

in 1941,
they started to see just how much they could safely stretch the fuel economy
of the Zero, individually and then in larger groups. Ten hour missions
became routine, then 11 and eventually they were able to stay in the air for
12. Okumiya describes this in "Zero!", with average fuel consumption
dropping to 21 gal./hr. and Saburo Sakai holding the record at only 18
gal./hr.

Interesting. The Wright R-2600 engine burned about 75gph at 60 percent power.
Any details on how the Japanese achieved such frugal fuel consumption figures?
What was "normal" fuel consumption for the Zero?



Chris Mark

"Denyav" wrote in message
...
There's a difference between evaulation and being
the backbone.

The fact is none of the type XXI's in US or RN services
were operational for very long and certainly didnt
form the backbone of the submarine force. The USN carried out the GUPPY
conversions while the
RN built the O & P classes

Yeah right,there is also a difference between inventing and copying
(stealing)
a technology.
Right Mr.Willshaw?


Indeed and the submarine was invented by an Irish
American called John Holland.

Keith

If you're so keen on spreading your message to the world, why don't you
tell us what he said?

Well,I thought that only Americans are not allowed to read serious books.(If
they get smarter,herding of them would become harder,you know).
But you are posting from UK ?.
You can find this book in any library.(at least in US)

It (the book) is actually the blueprint for the events that happened after 2000
and the event are going to to happen in next year.

If you read the book (published in 1997) carefully you could easily understand
that Anglos did not occupy or plan to occupy Eurasian countries because the
terrorists came from these areas,but other way around,terrorists came from
these areas because Anglos selected these areas as the playing ground for the
next round of the Great Game.

Brzenzinki sheds also light why 9/11 was required not only for the realization
Anglo foreign policy goals but also for the solving of Anglo domestic policy
goals.

Ouote:
"Democracy is inimical to IMPERIAL mobilization" page 35

Quote:
"The attitude of American public toward the external projection of American
power has been much more ambivalent .The public supported Americas engagement
in WWII largely because of SHOCK effect of Japanase attack on Pearl Harbor."
page24

Quote:
"Moreover,as America becomes an increasingly multicultural society ,it may find
it more difficult to fashion a consensus on foreign policy issues ,EXCEPT in
circumstances of a truly massive and widely perceived foreign threat" page235


This is the blueprint for 9/11 and the events prior after 9/11 not something
that necons (whatever or whoever they might be) did or said.


I would understand what he said if you could quote it in a
comprehensible form.

OK, the words of Rhodes in 1877:

"Why should we not form a secret society with but one object of furtherance of
the British empire and the bringing of whole uncivilized world under British
rule for the recovery of the United States for making ANGLO-SAXON RACE but
ONE EMPIRE"

Still did not understand?



Might the fact that the USA has English as its official language just
have something to do with its history as an English colony?
Just imagine the history of the USA if the French or Spanish had been
the major power there. Or even the Germans.

Well,I wonder in which part of Britain Latin,or at least Italien, is the
official language?

In history there are several great empires and all of them used different ways
to maintain their superiority.

For example the main chracteristics of the famous Roman Empire were superior
military organisation AND cultural appeal.
Main chracteristics of British empire was superior military organization AND
cultural assertiveness.period.

I hope you know the difference between "appeal" and "assertiveness",becuse
thats the reason why nobody in Britain speaks italian, wheras almost everybody
in US,India etc speaks English.

The British Empire was acquired largely accidentally. The language does
tend to follow the colonisers/occupiers, not the other way around.

There is not much space for accidents in history,for example the creation of
Soviet Union was a road accident,but not British Empire.


Then how do you know that you're not part of it as well?

You may never know it,I am pretty sure that neither Confederates nor Nazis ever
realized that they were indeed Anglo proxies.

I said before several times,I admire Great Game playing skills.

The Great Game was specifically in 18th/19th century India. Stopping the
French, and even more so the Russians, from taking over there.

That was the first chapter of the Great Game,The Great Game or if I use
Brzezinkis words "Grand Chessboard" never ended there,First and second WWs were
only another chapters of the Great Game now we see the most recent chapter.

leading? World domination by some
undefined group of goodness-knows-what? Once "they" have the world in
their grasp, what then? Brainwashing, Big Brother (Orwell, not Endemol)?

Anglos dominate the world for centuries already,struggle is to save Anglo
dominance.

I have a good idea why the signs might have been there, but I didn't see
them.

I am sure you wont see any of them in Britain,Australia or New Zeeland as all
of these countries are (still) Anglo countries,not an Anglo dominated country
like US.

In article ,
ost (Chris Mark) wrote:

From: Guy Alcala

in 1941,
they started to see just how much they could safely stretch the fuel economy
of the Zero, individually and then in larger groups. Ten hour missions
became routine, then 11 and eventually they were able to stay in the air for
12. Okumiya describes this in "Zero!", with average fuel consumption
dropping to 21 gal./hr. and Saburo Sakai holding the record at only 18
gal./hr.

Interesting. The Wright R-2600 engine burned about 75gph at 60 percent
power.
Any details on how the Japanese achieved such frugal fuel consumption
figures?
What was "normal" fuel consumption for the Zero?



Chris Mark


They achieved thos numbers by cutting back to 20%-30% power and
aggressive leaning. Lindbergh taught the same concepts to USAAF P-38
pilots -- this technique is part of what enabled the Yamamoto shootdown.
The P-38s were operating way outside their expected normal combat radius.