Scary story about landing on a Lake Tahoe golf course

On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 2:56:33 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
Good part was it was late in the day and there were no golfers on this hole:

https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3....l?dsId=8033935

Glad you're ok and no big damage or golfers injured. And now someone else gets a chance on OLC for a few weeks!

I usually don't try Sergio's unless I see wind on the lake. Good streaks or whitecaps needed, well before I cannot escape over the back to Carson.

The water south of sand harbor looks possible.

I've seen traces that retreat to the Carson valley via the 50 gap.

I gather the golf course in Kings beach has also been landed on, but these seem very chancy.

Anyone else have a half decent plan B for the Tahoe basin?

John Cochrane

John Cochrane wrote on 7/26/2020 5:56 PM:
I gather the golf course in Kings beach has also been landed on, but these seem very chancy.

Brockway Golf course in Kings Beach was the course Ramy landed on, not one of the
Incline Village courses. They are a few miles apart.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

There are 3 important lessons I can share which apply to many situations:
1- keep your margins, don’t let them erode overtime.
2- the 99% rule eventually wins. You can perform the same thing successfully 99 times, eventually it will fail.
3- Always have a plan B and even C. My plan B and C were the golf course and the lake. I walked and measured that golf course multiple times over the years and concluded that if it is empty I should be able to land there with minimum to no damage. If it is not I can divert to the water In the last minute. Admittedly it was still a very intense experience.

Ramy

On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 9:10:01 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
There are 3 important lessons I can share which apply to many situations:
1- keep your margins, don’t let them erode overtime.
2- the 99% rule eventually wins. You can perform the same thing successfully 99 times, eventually it will fail.
3- Always have a plan B and even C. My plan B and C were the golf course and the lake. I walked and measured that golf course multiple times over the years and concluded that if it is empty I should be able to land there with minimum to no damage. If it is not I can divert to the water In the last minute. Admittedly it was still a very intense experience.

Ramy

Isn't that Lake 1,600 ft deep? How well do gliders float? This is a serious question. Can one expect them to stay on or near the surface for a couple of hours? Anyone know what the usual damage is for water landings is, maybe Hank? Thanks for sharing Ramy, and so very glad you are okay!!!!

On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 9:10:01 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
There are 3 important lessons I can share which apply to many situations:
1- keep your margins, don’t let them erode overtime.
2- the 99% rule eventually wins. You can perform the same thing successfully 99 times, eventually it will fail.
3- Always have a plan B and even C. My plan B and C were the golf course and the lake. I walked and measured that golf course multiple times over the years and concluded that if it is empty I should be able to land there with minimum to no damage. If it is not I can divert to the water In the last minute. Admittedly it was still a very intense experience.

Ramy

That lake is 1,600 ft deep. So glad you are okay!! Anyone know what the usual damage is a for a water landing, perhaps Hank? How long will a glider float, anyone know? If landing on a body of water would it help to have the wheel brake locked?

I would think land gear up. It might float indefinitely. Depends on how much foam/wood is in it. I would certainly try and get out as quick as I could.

On Monday, 27 July 2020 07:33:50 UTC+1, Charles Longley wrote:
I would think land gear up. It might float indefinitely. Depends on how much foam/wood is in it. I would certainly try and get out as quick as I could.

All the recommendations I've heard, including in for instance Finland and Sweden, say wheel down

It helps break the surface, and otherwise the belly gets grabbed and the glider can get sucked in and turn over.

On Monday, July 27, 2020 at 3:30:50 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Monday, 27 July 2020 07:33:50 UTC+1, Charles Longley wrote:
I would think land gear up. It might float indefinitely. Depends on how much foam/wood is in it. I would certainly try and get out as quick as I could.

All the recommendations I've heard, including in for instance Finland and Sweden, say wheel down

It helps break the surface, and otherwise the belly gets grabbed and the glider can get sucked in and turn over.

This one resulted in a broken glider. Seem to recall advice that water landings should be downwind so you get blown towards the shore. Some high altitude lakes out west are pretty cold and may be tolerable in July/August. A high school chum died of hypothermia after capsizing a kayak in Puget Sound. He made it to shore and out of the water and dropped dead. His partner survived. Lake Tahoe is a similar temperature below about 18 inches is around 53F. The surface temperature may get to 66F in July.
quote
On August 7, 2003, at 1415 mountain daylight time, a Schempp-Hirth Ventus B/16.6 glider, N25RN, was substantially damaged during a precautionary landing in Gross Reservoir, near Boulder, Colorado. The commercial certificated flight instructor, the sole occupant on board, was not injured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed. No flight plan had been filed for the cross-country flight being operated under the provisions of Title 14 CFR Part 91. The glider departed Boulder, Colorado, at 1130.

According to the pilot, he was soaring 8 miles northeast of Mount Evans, when he noted the formation of thunderstorms and rain showers along his route of flight. He elected to return to Boulder. During his return flight, thunderstorms developed along the foothills, just west of Boulder. Due to the inadequate lift to sustain flight and with unsuitable terrain between his position and Boulder, the pilot decided to ditch the glider in Gross Reservoir. The pilot reported that he positioned the glider to land into the wind, a "west/northwest direction[,] parallel to the shore." During the impact with the water, the glider canopy was destroyed and the wings were separated from the fuselage at mid-span.
/unquote

I don't recall if this was gear up or down.

Frank Whiteley

Charles Longley wrote on 7/26/2020 11:33 PM:
I would think land gear up. It might float indefinitely. Depends on how much foam/wood is in it. I would certainly try and get out as quick as I could.

I'm not sure the advice is in the ASW20 handbook, as I haven't read one for 30
years or so, but it is in my ASH26E handbook: water landings should be done with
the gear extended to reduce the tendency of the glider to dive into the water, and
to absorb the shock of hitting the bottom of the lake in shallow water.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Ahh good points. I’ll take a look at my POH when I get my glider out again.