Scary story about landing on a Lake Tahoe golf course

I would think land gear up. It might float indefinitely. Depends on how much foam/wood is in it. I would certainly try and get out as quick as I could.

On Monday, 27 July 2020 07:33:50 UTC+1, Charles Longley wrote:
I would think land gear up. It might float indefinitely. Depends on how much foam/wood is in it. I would certainly try and get out as quick as I could.

All the recommendations I've heard, including in for instance Finland and Sweden, say wheel down

It helps break the surface, and otherwise the belly gets grabbed and the glider can get sucked in and turn over.

On Monday, July 27, 2020 at 3:30:50 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Monday, 27 July 2020 07:33:50 UTC+1, Charles Longley wrote:
I would think land gear up. It might float indefinitely. Depends on how much foam/wood is in it. I would certainly try and get out as quick as I could.

All the recommendations I've heard, including in for instance Finland and Sweden, say wheel down

It helps break the surface, and otherwise the belly gets grabbed and the glider can get sucked in and turn over.

This one resulted in a broken glider. Seem to recall advice that water landings should be downwind so you get blown towards the shore. Some high altitude lakes out west are pretty cold and may be tolerable in July/August. A high school chum died of hypothermia after capsizing a kayak in Puget Sound. He made it to shore and out of the water and dropped dead. His partner survived. Lake Tahoe is a similar temperature below about 18 inches is around 53F. The surface temperature may get to 66F in July.
quote
On August 7, 2003, at 1415 mountain daylight time, a Schempp-Hirth Ventus B/16.6 glider, N25RN, was substantially damaged during a precautionary landing in Gross Reservoir, near Boulder, Colorado. The commercial certificated flight instructor, the sole occupant on board, was not injured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed. No flight plan had been filed for the cross-country flight being operated under the provisions of Title 14 CFR Part 91. The glider departed Boulder, Colorado, at 1130.

According to the pilot, he was soaring 8 miles northeast of Mount Evans, when he noted the formation of thunderstorms and rain showers along his route of flight. He elected to return to Boulder. During his return flight, thunderstorms developed along the foothills, just west of Boulder. Due to the inadequate lift to sustain flight and with unsuitable terrain between his position and Boulder, the pilot decided to ditch the glider in Gross Reservoir. The pilot reported that he positioned the glider to land into the wind, a "west/northwest direction[,] parallel to the shore." During the impact with the water, the glider canopy was destroyed and the wings were separated from the fuselage at mid-span.
/unquote

I don't recall if this was gear up or down.

Frank Whiteley

a Schempp-Hirth Ventus B/16.6 glider
I don't recall if this was gear up or down.


How about the landing flaps/spoilers.

If those were out, it might explain the wing damage?

On Friday, July 31, 2020 at 8:06:54 AM UTC-7, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2020 at 3:30:50 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Monday, 27 July 2020 07:33:50 UTC+1, Charles Longley wrote:
I would think land gear up. It might float indefinitely. Depends on how much foam/wood is in it. I would certainly try and get out as quick as I could.

All the recommendations I've heard, including in for instance Finland and Sweden, say wheel down

It helps break the surface, and otherwise the belly gets grabbed and the glider can get sucked in and turn over.

This one resulted in a broken glider. Seem to recall advice that water landings should be downwind so you get blown towards the shore. Some high altitude lakes out west are pretty cold and may be tolerable in July/August. A high school chum died of hypothermia after capsizing a kayak in Puget Sound. He made it to shore and out of the water and dropped dead. His partner survived. Lake Tahoe is a similar temperature below about 18 inches is around 53F. The surface temperature may get to 66F in July.
quote
On August 7, 2003, at 1415 mountain daylight time, a Schempp-Hirth Ventus B/16.6 glider, N25RN, was substantially damaged during a precautionary landing in Gross Reservoir, near Boulder, Colorado. The commercial certificated flight instructor, the sole occupant on board, was not injured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed. No flight plan had been filed for the cross-country flight being operated under the provisions of Title 14 CFR Part 91. The glider departed Boulder, Colorado, at 1130.

According to the pilot, he was soaring 8 miles northeast of Mount Evans, when he noted the formation of thunderstorms and rain showers along his route of flight. He elected to return to Boulder. During his return flight, thunderstorms developed along the foothills, just west of Boulder. Due to the inadequate lift to sustain flight and with unsuitable terrain between his position and Boulder, the pilot decided to ditch the glider in Gross Reservoir. The pilot reported that he positioned the glider to land into the wind, a "west/northwest direction[,] parallel to the shore." During the impact with the water, the glider canopy was destroyed and the wings were separated from the fuselage at mid-span.
/unquote

I don't recall if this was gear up or down.

Frank Whiteley

The longer this thread goes on the better Carson looks for options B and C.

When you talk about Carson are you talking about Carson City Airport or
somewhere else?

On 7/31/2020 1:08 PM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Friday, July 31, 2020 at 8:06:54 AM UTC-7, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2020 at 3:30:50 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Monday, 27 July 2020 07:33:50 UTC+1, Charles Longley wrote:
I would think land gear up. It might float indefinitely. Depends on how much foam/wood is in it. I would certainly try and get out as quick as I could.
All the recommendations I've heard, including in for instance Finland and Sweden, say wheel down

It helps break the surface, and otherwise the belly gets grabbed and the glider can get sucked in and turn over.
This one resulted in a broken glider. Seem to recall advice that water landings should be downwind so you get blown towards the shore. Some high altitude lakes out west are pretty cold and may be tolerable in July/August. A high school chum died of hypothermia after capsizing a kayak in Puget Sound. He made it to shore and out of the water and dropped dead. His partner survived. Lake Tahoe is a similar temperature below about 18 inches is around 53F. The surface temperature may get to 66F in July.
quote
On August 7, 2003, at 1415 mountain daylight time, a Schempp-Hirth Ventus B/16.6 glider, N25RN, was substantially damaged during a precautionary landing in Gross Reservoir, near Boulder, Colorado. The commercial certificated flight instructor, the sole occupant on board, was not injured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed. No flight plan had been filed for the cross-country flight being operated under the provisions of Title 14 CFR Part 91. The glider departed Boulder, Colorado, at 1130.

According to the pilot, he was soaring 8 miles northeast of Mount Evans, when he noted the formation of thunderstorms and rain showers along his route of flight. He elected to return to Boulder. During his return flight, thunderstorms developed along the foothills, just west of Boulder. Due to the inadequate lift to sustain flight and with unsuitable terrain between his position and Boulder, the pilot decided to ditch the glider in Gross Reservoir. The pilot reported that he positioned the glider to land into the wind, a "west/northwest direction[,] parallel to the shore." During the impact with the water, the glider canopy was destroyed and the wings were separated from the fuselage at mid-span.
/unquote

I don't recall if this was gear up or down.

Frank Whiteley
The longer this thread goes on the better Carson looks for options B and C.

--
Dan, 5J

Charles Longley wrote on 7/26/2020 11:33 PM:
I would think land gear up. It might float indefinitely. Depends on how much foam/wood is in it. I would certainly try and get out as quick as I could.

I'm not sure the advice is in the ASW20 handbook, as I haven't read one for 30
years or so, but it is in my ASH26E handbook: water landings should be done with
the gear extended to reduce the tendency of the glider to dive into the water, and
to absorb the shock of hitting the bottom of the lake in shallow water.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Ahh good points. I’ll take a look at my POH when I get my glider out again.

On Monday, July 27, 2020 at 9:01:28 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Charles Longley wrote on 7/26/2020 11:33 PM:
I would think land gear up. It might float indefinitely. Depends on how much foam/wood is in it. I would certainly try and get out as quick as I could.

I'm not sure the advice is in the ASW20 handbook, as I haven't read one for 30
years or so, but it is in my ASH26E handbook: water landings should be done with
the gear extended to reduce the tendency of the glider to dive into the water, and
to absorb the shock of hitting the bottom of the lake in shallow water.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

It will also get rid of a lot of energy in a hurry so you are going more slowly.

On Monday, July 27, 2020 at 6:01:28 AM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Charles Longley wrote on 7/26/2020 11:33 PM:
I would think land gear up. It might float indefinitely. Depends on how much foam/wood is in it. I would certainly try and get out as quick as I could.

I'm not sure the advice is in the ASW20 handbook, as I haven't read one for 30
years or so, but it is in my ASH26E handbook: water landings should be done with
the gear extended to reduce the tendency of the glider to dive into the water, and
to absorb the shock of hitting the bottom of the lake in shallow water.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

This is from my ASH31 flight manual:

A landing on water of a plastic sailplane with landing gear retracted has
been tested. Due to the experience gained on that occasion it is supposed, that the aircraft will not skim across the water, but that the whole
cockpit area will be pressed under the surface. If the depth of the water
is less than 2 m = 6.5 ft, the pilot is in the greatest danger. Touching
down on water is, therefore, recommended only with landing gear lowered, and as the only way out.