§ 61.87 (i)

On Wednesday, August 12, 2020 at 9:14:56 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 5:41:22 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, August 9, 2020 at 11:30:29 PM UTC-5, SoaringXCellence wrote:
Except if you look at the reg, the pre-solo test is not required to be written, but I think that is a great way to "prove" you'd done the test. An Oral test meets the requirement, but you may have a hard time remembering what you asked if an FAA inspector was investigating an incident.

MB
Thank you all for a robust exchange.

What prompted the question in the first place was I was told flatly "there are no FAR violations" followed by "you are wrong".

It's abundantly clear why the requirement exists. Burt, your point is well taken with regard to the exemption. I think I could make a solid case against gratuitous disassembly for the sake of a class (Grob 102 ADs on wing spigots come to mind here) but I am convinced that the need for the training is there pre-solo. I say that having helped on a landout only weeks ago. It was time consuming and tedious, but everything was put back together before it went back into the hangar. I don't think any of us lost any sleep that night over how it was done.

But the requirement for the training is there.

It's kind of amusing that only a week ago I had a CFI-G tell me I didn't know WTF I was talking about.
That could be achieved as simply as giving the student the written procedure for glider assembly to review. You don't actually have to rig a glider in the presence of the student.

Tom

Never a disagreement as to how it might be accomplished.

The disagreement began and ended with the idea that it needed to be accomplished pre-solo at all.


No longer a problem for me. I'm flying at another club and I'll finish my work up there. I guess somebody got butt hurt or something that I dared to ask a question without getting their approval.

For them a traditional raven sign off

Alpha
Mike
Foxtrot

The regs state that solo students must receive and log "flight training" for "Procedures for disassembly and assembly of the glider." "Flight Training" is defined in 14 CFR 61.1 as training "received from an authorized instructor in flight in an aircraft." Technically, students must be trained to disassemble the glider while in flight!

On Thursday, August 13, 2020 at 2:13:03 AM UTC-4, David Shelton wrote:
The regs state that solo students must receive and log "flight training" for "Procedures for disassembly and assembly of the glider." "Flight Training" is defined in 14 CFR 61.1 as training "received from an authorized instructor in flight in an aircraft." Technically, students must be trained to disassemble the glider while in flight!

The requirement to instruct in assembly/disassemble procedures is the most explicit requirement in this reg that the student know how to tell if the aircraft is assembled properly. Teaching of preflight inspection in ubiquitious in pre-solo instruction, but not explicitly addressed in this reg.

On Thursday, August 13, 2020 at 7:24:55 AM UTC-5, John Godfrey (QT) wrote:
On Thursday, August 13, 2020 at 2:13:03 AM UTC-4, David Shelton wrote:
The regs state that solo students must receive and log "flight training" for "Procedures for disassembly and assembly of the glider." "Flight Training" is defined in 14 CFR 61.1 as training "received from an authorized instructor in flight in an aircraft." Technically, students must be trained to disassemble the glider while in flight!
The requirement to instruct in assembly/disassemble procedures is the most explicit requirement in this reg that the student know how to tell if the aircraft is assembled properly. Teaching of preflight inspection in ubiquitious in pre-solo instruction, but not explicitly addressed in this reg.

So far I've had only one person actually argue that aspect with me.

I have to share this, I actually have somebody who continues to argue back channel that I am full of crap. He lacks the intellectual integrity to come here and argue it for himself so instead he's threatening (indirectly) suit for libel for a job he does for free.

No, I'm not making this up.

Concerning Burt’s comment on the FAA exemption letter for non A&Ps to assemble gliders... anybody know where to find it on the SSA site?
I’m not having any luck finding it.

On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 11:05:35 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Concerning Burt’s comment on the FAA exemption letter for non A&Ps to assemble gliders... anybody know where to find it on the SSA site?
I’m not having any luck finding it.
"This information can be found in Amendment 43-27, published in 52 FR 17276, May 6, 1987 which is an amendment to 14 CFR part 43.."

Even if you can't find it, the FSDO guy will happily take a half-day to look it up!

Jeez this new format is atrocious.

On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 8:47:42 PM UTC-5, Tony wrote:
On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 11:05:35 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Concerning Burt’s comment on the FAA exemption letter for non A&Ps to assemble gliders... anybody know where to find it on the SSA site?

Glider Assembly Exemption.
An aircraft logbook entry is not required for assembling a glider.

From the FAA Glider Flying Handbook, page 6-2 (8083-13A, the current edition):
“The assembly of a glider to include the installation of glider wings and tail surfaces is classified as operations functions not preventative maintenance.
This information can be found in Amendment 43-27, published in 52 FR 17276, May 6, 1987 which is an amendment to 14 CFR part 43.�
The FAA considers that training in assembling a glider is part of the mandatory glider pre-solo training requirements in CFR 61.87(i)(13). Therefore, it not a part 43 preventative maintenance action which would require a logbook entry, but a normal operational action and no logbook entry is required.

On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 8:47:42 PM UTC-5, Tony wrote:
On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 11:05:35 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Concerning Burt’s comment on the FAA exemption letter for non A&Ps to assemble gliders... anybody know where to find it on the SSA site?
I’m not having any luck finding it.
"This information can be found in Amendment 43-27, published in 52 FR 17276, May 6, 1987 which is an amendment to 14 CFR part 43."

Even if you can't find it, the FSDO guy will happily take a half-day to look it up!

Jeez this new format is atrocious.

Tony,

The FSDO could have cared less.