The Apology

I mean if you don't think you're chauvinistic by calling women "childless corporate whores" or telling them they'd be "more attractive by keeping their mouth shut", you probably wont get it?

Growing up at the gliderport, my club hosted the WSPA Seminar when I was 13.. I had the opportunity to meet women from across the country with varied backgrounds and a single common interest - soaring. Since that time, my first practical test was with a female DPE, I've flown a contest in a double seater with a woman who is now an accomplished Army aviator, I've flown with a female teammate at the Junior Worlds that is now a director at one of the largest defense contractors in the country and shared thermals with several others at clubs and contests around the world. Professionally, I've worked with several corporate pilots who happen to be female as well. They come in and do their job, meet the standards as set out by the FAA - just like everyone else is expected to. Some are single, some are married, some are divorced. Some have kids, some do not. They're living their life as they see fit.

Most of the women that I have met in soaring were involved with WSPA. They've all come away with positive experiences, whether they were pre-solo or well into cross-country, contests and badges. My own daughter just turned 13 and is taking lessons. We signed her up as a member of WSPA a couple months ago and I'll be making a donation in honor of this thread to help support the next generation of "childless corporate whores" as you call them. There's a good chance a young woman that started out at the local gliderport, fostered by a WSPA seminar or scholarship could be that Captain on your next airline flight, defending our country over the skies of a foreign country or possibly the next person on the Moon or the first person on Mars. That's pretty f*#@ing awesome.

Mike Westbrook

On Monday, October 26, 2020 at 11:12:53 AM UTC-4, wrote:
I mean if you don't think you're chauvinistic by calling women "childless corporate whores" or telling them they'd be "more attractive by keeping their mouth shut", you probably wont get it?

Growing up at the gliderport, my club hosted the WSPA Seminar when I was 13. I had the opportunity to meet women from across the country with varied backgrounds and a single common interest - soaring. Since that time, my first practical test was with a female DPE, I've flown a contest in a double seater with a woman who is now an accomplished Army aviator, I've flown with a female teammate at the Junior Worlds that is now a director at one of the largest defense contractors in the country and shared thermals with several others at clubs and contests around the world. Professionally, I've worked with several corporate pilots who happen to be female as well. They come in and do their job, meet the standards as set out by the FAA - just like everyone else is expected to. Some are single, some are married, some are divorced. Some have kids, some do not. They're living their life as they see fit.

Most of the women that I have met in soaring were involved with WSPA. They've all come away with positive experiences, whether they were pre-solo or well into cross-country, contests and badges. My own daughter just turned 13 and is taking lessons. We signed her up as a member of WSPA a couple months ago and I'll be making a donation in honor of this thread to help support the next generation of "childless corporate whores" as you call them. There's a good chance a young woman that started out at the local gliderport, fostered by a WSPA seminar or scholarship could be that Captain on your next airline flight, defending our country over the skies of a foreign country or possibly the next person on the Moon or the first person on Mars. That's pretty f*#@ing awesome.

Mike Westbrook
That is a lot of words Mike, now try again and explain what is chauvinistic about the ad in Soaring magazine. Anyone? Not my responses, the original ad, what was chauvinistic about the original Soaring ad that set these women off? Spell it out. Since the ad was outrageous enough to generate multiple complaints it should be easy to explain. Even if I am unable to get it you may enlighten some other RAS readers and win new allies.

That is a lot of words Mike, now try again and explain what is chauvinistic about the ad in Soaring magazine. Anyone? Not my responses, the original ad, what was chauvinistic about the original Soaring ad that set these women off? Spell it out. Since the ad was outrageous enough to generate multiple complaints it should be easy to explain. Even if I am unable to get it you may enlighten some other RAS readers and win new allies.


From the link that someone posted very early in this thread, which contained one of the letters to Soaring: "that ad brought back memories of days when women were supposed to be worshipping pilots instead of being pilots."

That's one thing that's chauvinistic about it. I'll go out on a limb and admit that I read right by the ad the first time. It wasn't nearly as outrageous as some things I've seen. I missed it, as did many others, including some women.

But I understand why it resonated the wrong way with other women. As Dale said, it was tone deaf. So I think the SSA was right in acknowledging the mistake and promising to do better. End of story until Bob launched this thread with his tirade about Feminazis undermining everything the SSA stands for.

Greg, there was a full page in Soaring explaining the issue along with an apology. There have been several on here offering an explanation to those who asked. If you don't get it yet... I'm now positive you won't just because others say it again and again. I'd say that's fine if you don't see something deeper in an ad. Everyone has a different experience and world-view, so in that case I'd expect someone mature would move on and say, "I don't get it but whatever, lets go fly gliders".

The bigger problem is that yourself and others who didn't read anything into an advertisement, do think that its ok to call women "childless whores", "Feminazis"and that they "would be more attractive if they kept their mouth shut". So right now, the problem isn't Soaring magazine that offered an explanation and apology. It's you.

Exactly, Mike. Well said. Also, Chip, thanks so much for your great perspective. A true gentleman. Donation to WSPA, who helped my mom as well as many of my friends with getting involved in soaring forthcoming from me as well.

-Mitch Hudson

If you want to see more of the old pictures and read stories which start: “There I was, thought I was going to die.� I recommend the book: Naomi the Aviatrix. https://www.amazon.com/Naomi-Aviatri.../dp/1453883851

Her diary covers parachuting in Sir Alan Cobham's Air Circus, soaring prewar England and Germany, and ferrying warbirds around barrage balloons with no radio in English weather.

Sexism is not mentioned much in her diary of 1935 to 1945. However when put in contrast to the feminist she became in the 1950's and on, it speaks volumes to the fact sexism became harder to endure.

Naomi and Rosy the Riveter found themselves out of work because of sentiments suggested in the advertisements of the time. The 1950's represents an enormous setback for women.

In later life Naomi felt equal pay the most important cause. Imagine going to work and accepting your co-worker makes more money because of his or her genitalia.

However, during the war, when she became the first woman on the planet to receive equal pay, she thought other's were more important.

Monday, 24 May 1943. Saw in the papers that as from the 1st of next month women pilots are to get the same pay as the men. Hurray! Sent Mum and Kitty 5 pounds each on the strength of it, but postdated as I won’t have the money till June 1st. Naturally I am pleased to be getting more pay, but I would be still more pleased if instead of paying us more, they were to bring single men down to our level and give the balance to married men with families according to the number of their children.

It is still legal to pay women less. I tried, but HR is run by women. My life was hell for years after that.

Amazon has the book at only five bucks. They screwed me again. All proceeds go to a bald old man with nothing to show for his life except milk crates full of soaring magazines.

On Monday, October 26, 2020 at 1:32:12 PM UTC-4, xcnick wrote:
If you want to see more of the old pictures and read stories which start: “There I was, thought I was going to die.� I recommend the book: Naomi the Aviatrix. https://www.amazon.com/Naomi-Aviatri.../dp/1453883851

Her diary covers parachuting in Sir Alan Cobham's Air Circus, soaring prewar England and Germany, and ferrying warbirds around barrage balloons with no radio in English weather.

Sexism is not mentioned much in her diary of 1935 to 1945. However when put in contrast to the feminist she became in the 1950's and on, it speaks volumes to the fact sexism became harder to endure.

Naomi and Rosy the Riveter found themselves out of work because of sentiments suggested in the advertisements of the time. The 1950's represents an enormous setback for women.

In later life Naomi felt equal pay the most important cause. Imagine going to work and accepting your co-worker makes more money because of his or her genitalia.

However, during the war, when she became the first woman on the planet to receive equal pay, she thought other's were more important.

Monday, 24 May 1943. Saw in the papers that as from the 1st of next month women pilots are to get the same pay as the men. Hurray! Sent Mum and Kitty 5 pounds each on the strength of it, but postdated as I won’t have the money till June 1st. Naturally I am pleased to be getting more pay, but I would be still more pleased if instead of paying us more, they were to bring single men down to our level and give the balance to married men with families according to the number of their children.

It is still legal to pay women less. I tried, but HR is run by women. My life was hell for years after that.

Amazon has the book at only five bucks. They screwed me again. All proceeds go to a bald old man with nothing to show for his life except milk crates full of soaring magazines.
Exactly I pointed out earlier in this thread that women have been flying since the beginning. Pioneering balloon flying and parachute jumps(from balloons and later airplanes) were made by women there is female aviation history going back hundreds of years. So if the complaint is that a circa 1950's ad "... brought back memories of days when women were supposed to be worshipping pilots instead of being pilots." That is patently false, plenty of female flyers since the beginning of flying, and no their history isn't a secret, the outrage is wrong and ridiculous.

Exactly I pointed out earlier in this thread that women have been flying since the beginning. Pioneering balloon flying and parachute jumps(from balloons and later airplanes) were made by women there is female aviation history going back hundreds of years. So if the complaint is that a circa 1950's ad "... brought back memories of days when women were supposed to be worshipping pilots instead of being pilots." That is patently false, plenty of female flyers since the beginning of flying, and no their history isn't a secret, the outrage is wrong and ridiculous.

Did you point that out before or after you referred to professional women as childless corporate whores and said that the woman in the ad would be more attractive with their mouth shut?

Just wanted to make sure you get credit for pointing out that stuff too, Gregg.

It is not my position to decide how someone else feels.

I too am married to a female glider pilot. Leah is also a "Childless Corporate Whore" and WSPA member (former board member). She benefitted immensely in her early flying career by attending a seminar at Air Saililng. I didn't ask her how she felt about the ad. Her feelings about the ad do not change the fact that many people who wrote in to Soaring did not appreciate it. I thought SSA & SSF did a very good job of addressing the problem. I hope that the letter writers feel the same way.

I hope that WSPA is selling "Childless Corporate Whore" T-shirts soon. That's gold.

RAS holds a special place in my heart as it was my primary outlet for soaring reporting and information during my early days as a glider pilot. Many long time contributors probably are happy that I've moved on LOL. Every now and then there's a nasty thread like this that makes me sad. Remember folks.. If you can't say something nice don't say anything at all. It's not that hard. Be Nice.

This thread absolutely boggles my mind. Many on here use a response that sounds a lot like "I have a black friend". As men, we have to accept the fact that until we walk a mile in the shoes of someone who has "Been there, done that" we will NEVER "get it". So, when someone finds something like that advertisement offensive, what we do is look at it from the best angle we can, try to understand, and accept that maybe it is. There is a reason that you can no longer find Br'er Rabbit, Tom and Jerry, or Dukes of Hazard on TV. My generation may have loved them as kids, however, looking back in hindsight, they are incredibly offensive and have no place in society any more. Just like this advertisement.

I can remember being at a national contest, and someone walking up to some very good friends of mine and asking "Do you ladies work"? I turned around and walked away because I knew this person was about to get destroyed by two extreemly accomplished women who had achieved more in their lives than anyone standing there at that moment. I wish I would have heard the rest of the conversation, but these ladies didn't need me to stand up for them.


Gregg, based on your comments, I can tell you that you, sir, are welcome to leave our community. I don't care how much you have done for it, this thread just set you back 60 years in time and showed you do not have the capability to learn. As a pilot, always being willing to learn something is paramont to safety, no matter what your experience. You have not shown this. Additionally, I will do everything in my power to make sure that you are never welcome at any contest I host, any club or flying location that I fly at, or a part of any orginization that I am also a member of. I may not be able to stop any of this, but I'll sure give it my best attempt to try. Your lack of capability to learn and general attitude cause the label of "Crappy pilot" let alone the comments about "Corperate whore" and "Feminazi" which just lable you as generally ignorant. I can only take solace in the fact that I am young enough I will probobly outlive you, and you will take your miserable attitude to the grave with you where it belongs.