The Apology

On Monday, October 26, 2020 at 1:32:12 PM UTC-4, xcnick wrote:
If you want to see more of the old pictures and read stories which start: “There I was, thought I was going to die.� I recommend the book: Naomi the Aviatrix. https://www.amazon.com/Naomi-Aviatri.../dp/1453883851

Her diary covers parachuting in Sir Alan Cobham's Air Circus, soaring prewar England and Germany, and ferrying warbirds around barrage balloons with no radio in English weather.

Sexism is not mentioned much in her diary of 1935 to 1945. However when put in contrast to the feminist she became in the 1950's and on, it speaks volumes to the fact sexism became harder to endure.

Naomi and Rosy the Riveter found themselves out of work because of sentiments suggested in the advertisements of the time. The 1950's represents an enormous setback for women.

In later life Naomi felt equal pay the most important cause. Imagine going to work and accepting your co-worker makes more money because of his or her genitalia.

However, during the war, when she became the first woman on the planet to receive equal pay, she thought other's were more important.

Monday, 24 May 1943. Saw in the papers that as from the 1st of next month women pilots are to get the same pay as the men. Hurray! Sent Mum and Kitty 5 pounds each on the strength of it, but postdated as I won’t have the money till June 1st. Naturally I am pleased to be getting more pay, but I would be still more pleased if instead of paying us more, they were to bring single men down to our level and give the balance to married men with families according to the number of their children.

It is still legal to pay women less. I tried, but HR is run by women. My life was hell for years after that.

Amazon has the book at only five bucks. They screwed me again. All proceeds go to a bald old man with nothing to show for his life except milk crates full of soaring magazines.
Exactly I pointed out earlier in this thread that women have been flying since the beginning. Pioneering balloon flying and parachute jumps(from balloons and later airplanes) were made by women there is female aviation history going back hundreds of years. So if the complaint is that a circa 1950's ad "... brought back memories of days when women were supposed to be worshipping pilots instead of being pilots." That is patently false, plenty of female flyers since the beginning of flying, and no their history isn't a secret, the outrage is wrong and ridiculous.

Exactly I pointed out earlier in this thread that women have been flying since the beginning. Pioneering balloon flying and parachute jumps(from balloons and later airplanes) were made by women there is female aviation history going back hundreds of years. So if the complaint is that a circa 1950's ad "... brought back memories of days when women were supposed to be worshipping pilots instead of being pilots." That is patently false, plenty of female flyers since the beginning of flying, and no their history isn't a secret, the outrage is wrong and ridiculous.

Did you point that out before or after you referred to professional women as childless corporate whores and said that the woman in the ad would be more attractive with their mouth shut?

Just wanted to make sure you get credit for pointing out that stuff too, Gregg.

It is not my position to decide how someone else feels.

I too am married to a female glider pilot. Leah is also a "Childless Corporate Whore" and WSPA member (former board member). She benefitted immensely in her early flying career by attending a seminar at Air Saililng. I didn't ask her how she felt about the ad. Her feelings about the ad do not change the fact that many people who wrote in to Soaring did not appreciate it. I thought SSA & SSF did a very good job of addressing the problem. I hope that the letter writers feel the same way.

I hope that WSPA is selling "Childless Corporate Whore" T-shirts soon. That's gold.

RAS holds a special place in my heart as it was my primary outlet for soaring reporting and information during my early days as a glider pilot. Many long time contributors probably are happy that I've moved on LOL. Every now and then there's a nasty thread like this that makes me sad. Remember folks.. If you can't say something nice don't say anything at all. It's not that hard. Be Nice.

Sign the petition. http://chng.it/2qk7Cwq64Y

Yours truly,
Cumungus

On Monday, October 26, 2020 at 5:22:40 PM UTC-4, Cumungus wrote:
Sign the petition. http://chng.it/2qk7Cwq64Y

Yours truly,
Cumungus
Comungus, I was in court all morning taking care of business, when all was said and done the local glider club will benefit from my directed donation of all funds collected. Let me ask you, what have you done.

I want to add my voice to those who have already posted that they understand why the ad was so cringeworthy.

When I first skimmed over it in print it elicited a "something's not quite right" reaction in the back of my brain, but I didn't really pause to think about it (perhaps I should have). On reflection, it doesn't surprise me at all that a significant number of very accomplished women glider pilots might feel a snub at being portrayed in by the senior representatives of the sport (SSF and the Editors of Soaring) as basking in the glow of the dashing and adventuresome man who performs daring feats of airmanship that women can't even comprehend on their own - and that their trajectory in the sport is to become romantically involved with such a man. That's the obvious implication of the content of the ad - probably unintentional and based on a set of subconscious presumptions about what's nostalgic versus rubbing salt in a wound. Just because something is subconscious and counter to what a person might support explicitly doesn't make its impact less corrosive. I'd also note that it appears that the "thought bubble" was added to the retro material by whomever put the ad together so the "historical graphic" seems to have had its more objectionable presumptions reinforced by contemporary sentiments. People should think about that - it's unlikely that this ad was written as irony and even if it was, it doesn't come across that way. In either case it's a fail and a corrective statement is wholly appropriate.

Pointing out the obvious shortcomings of a not-so-subtle diminishing of women's place in our sport is not an assault of freedom or a liberal conspiracy to "cancel" men, a "PC takeover" by overly sensitive snowflakes, or anything of the sort. It's simply pointing out that these sorts of obvious to some but (apparently) oblivious to others slights get noticed and cumulatively diminish the enjoyment of those women who do participate in soaring. These representations also erode the propensity to join of 50% of the population who might consider our sport. That's hardly a group we should be writing off - their participation rate is tragically small as it stands.

A very wise person once told me "feedback is a gift". People have to screw up their courage and make an effort to provide you with an opportunity to learn and grow. Defensiveness is the enemy of understanding - and vitriolic ad hominem reactions are simply indefensible. I have to admit true astonishment at those who have run off to some woman in their life to ask "this isn't sexist, right?". That's hardly a defense of anything.

My hope is that most of us can learn something of value from this episode. I certainly have.

Andy Blackburn
9B

On Monday, October 26, 2020 at 7:10:07 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I want to add my voice to those who have already posted that they understand why the ad was so cringeworthy.

When I first skimmed over it in print it elicited a "something's not quite right" reaction in the back of my brain, but I didn't really pause to think about it (perhaps I should have). On reflection, it doesn't surprise me at all that a significant number of very accomplished women glider pilots might feel a snub at being portrayed in by the senior representatives of the sport (SSF and the Editors of Soaring) as basking in the glow of the dashing and adventuresome man who performs daring feats of airmanship that women can't even comprehend on their own - and that their trajectory in the sport is to become romantically involved with such a man. That's the obvious implication of the content of the ad - probably unintentional and based on a set of subconscious presumptions about what's nostalgic versus rubbing salt in a wound. Just because something is subconscious and counter to what a person might support explicitly doesn't make its impact less corrosive. I'd also note that it appears that the "thought bubble" was added to the retro material by whomever put the ad together so the "historical graphic" seems to have had its more objectionable presumptions reinforced by contemporary sentiments. People should think about that - it's unlikely that this ad was written as irony and even if it was, it doesn't come across that way. In either case it's a fail and a corrective statement is wholly appropriate.

Pointing out the obvious shortcomings of a not-so-subtle diminishing of women's place in our sport is not an assault of freedom or a liberal conspiracy to "cancel" men, a "PC takeover" by overly sensitive snowflakes, or anything of the sort. It's simply pointing out that these sorts of obvious to some but (apparently) oblivious to others slights get noticed and cumulatively diminish the enjoyment of those women who do participate in soaring. These representations also erode the propensity to join of 50% of the population who might consider our sport. That's hardly a group we should be writing off - their participation rate is tragically small as it stands.

A very wise person once told me "feedback is a gift". People have to screw up their courage and make an effort to provide you with an opportunity to learn and grow. Defensiveness is the enemy of understanding - and vitriolic ad hominem reactions are simply indefensible. I have to admit true astonishment at those who have run off to some woman in their life to ask "this isn't sexist, right?". That's hardly a defense of anything.

My hope is that most of us can learn something of value from this episode.. I certainly have.

Andy Blackburn
9B
Andy, nice interpretation of your point of view. I would like to ask you the question in reference to this depiction topic only. Are the women or men more subtly sensitive about the depiction? I was just reading something called the Woman Enemy, which pretty much came to the conclusion that 95% of sexist facts were undermined by other women. Maybe I should go back and read the, The rules Of The Feminists' Fight Club". I do not mean to rub in salt as you stated, just looking for a better understanding. Bob

On Monday, October 26, 2020 at 4:22:40 PM UTC-5, Cumungus wrote:
Sign the petition. http://chng.it/2qk7Cwq64Y

Yours truly,
Cumungus

I have no desire to see anyone banned from the SSA over this.

I do have a desire to point out what is unacceptable behavior and hopefully see some change. I would much rather have someone take a breath, think about the fact their actions and words can have real consequences with regard to how they are perceived, and decide that they will modify the way that they interact with their fellow human beings rather than be completely alienated from the sport and community.

On Monday, October 26, 2020 at 5:22:40 PM UTC-4, Cumungus wrote:
Sign the petition. http://chng.it/2qk7Cwq64Y

Yours truly,
Cumungus
Damn the soaring social justice cancel culture is harsh. I'm not one of those holocaust deniers, I just think the ladies overreacted to an innocent illustration.

Just to ensure we don't get some weakened, wattered down thing at the end of this thread where people never see the true hate which has spewed from these posters, I will provide quotes, with references after the last post by either Bob or Greg for as long as it takes for this thread to go away. These quotes need to be preserved for the life of the internet, and serve as a reminder to customers, potential club members, and future employers.

"Mark, you make a great point , the apology should be from these Feminazi organizers whose mission was only to create conflict. This Femitifa approach should not be tolerated, solution, defund the WSPA as part or association with the SSA. "
-Bob Youngblood, Vero Beach, Florida, Oct 20, 2020, 12:03:12

"The complaints and the sniveling apologies are appalling. And the woman in the ad would be more attractive if she had kept her mouth shut."
-Greg Ballou, Elmwood, Massachusits, Oct 21, 2020, 12:49:44

"Poor women, women have lost a lot since the 1950's if you think being a childless corporate whore is better than being a stay at home mother you need to talk to some honest women.
-Greg Ballou, Elmwood, Massachusits, Oct 23, 2020, 4:24:47