The Apology

On Monday, October 26, 2020 at 5:22:40 PM UTC-4, Cumungus wrote:
Sign the petition. http://chng.it/2qk7Cwq64Y

Yours truly,
Cumungus
Damn the soaring social justice cancel culture is harsh. I'm not one of those holocaust deniers, I just think the ladies overreacted to an innocent illustration.

Just to ensure we don't get some weakened, wattered down thing at the end of this thread where people never see the true hate which has spewed from these posters, I will provide quotes, with references after the last post by either Bob or Greg for as long as it takes for this thread to go away. These quotes need to be preserved for the life of the internet, and serve as a reminder to customers, potential club members, and future employers.

"Mark, you make a great point , the apology should be from these Feminazi organizers whose mission was only to create conflict. This Femitifa approach should not be tolerated, solution, defund the WSPA as part or association with the SSA. "
-Bob Youngblood, Vero Beach, Florida, Oct 20, 2020, 12:03:12

"The complaints and the sniveling apologies are appalling. And the woman in the ad would be more attractive if she had kept her mouth shut."
-Greg Ballou, Elmwood, Massachusits, Oct 21, 2020, 12:49:44

"Poor women, women have lost a lot since the 1950's if you think being a childless corporate whore is better than being a stay at home mother you need to talk to some honest women.
-Greg Ballou, Elmwood, Massachusits, Oct 23, 2020, 4:24:47

On Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 6:22:37 AM UTC-7, Kimmine and Mitch Hudson wrote:
Just to ensure we don't get some weakened, wattered down thing at the end of this thread where people never see the true hate which has spewed from these posters, I will provide quotes, with references after the last post by either Bob or Greg for as long as it takes for this thread to go away. These quotes need to be preserved for the life of the internet, and serve as a reminder to customers, potential club members, and future employers.

"Mark, you make a great point , the apology should be from these Feminazi organizers whose mission was only to create conflict. This Femitifa approach should not be tolerated, solution, defund the WSPA as part or association with the SSA. "
-Bob Youngblood, Vero Beach, Florida, Oct 20, 2020, 12:03:12

"The complaints and the sniveling apologies are appalling. And the woman in the ad would be more attractive if she had kept her mouth shut."
-Greg Ballou, Elmwood, Massachusits, Oct 21, 2020, 12:49:44

"Poor women, women have lost a lot since the 1950's if you think being a childless corporate whore is better than being a stay at home mother you need to talk to some honest women.
-Greg Ballou, Elmwood, Massachusits, Oct 23, 2020, 4:24:47

Just to balance this:

"Few men are 'pigs'. But those few might cloud the perception of swine." Cindy B

On Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 9:22:37 AM UTC-4, Kimmine and Mitch Hudson wrote:
Just to ensure we don't get some weakened, wattered down thing at the end of this thread where people never see the true hate which has spewed from these posters, I will provide quotes, with references after the last post by either Bob or Greg for as long as it takes for this thread to go away. These quotes need to be preserved for the life of the internet, and serve as a reminder to customers, potential club members, and future employers.

"Mark, you make a great point , the apology should be from these Feminazi organizers whose mission was only to create conflict. This Femitifa approach should not be tolerated, solution, defund the WSPA as part or association with the SSA. "
-Bob Youngblood, Vero Beach, Florida, Oct 20, 2020, 12:03:12

"The complaints and the sniveling apologies are appalling. And the woman in the ad would be more attractive if she had kept her mouth shut."
-Greg Ballou, Elmwood, Massachusits, Oct 21, 2020, 12:49:44
"Poor women, women have lost a lot since the 1950's if you think being a childless corporate whore is better than being a stay at home mother you need to talk to some honest women.
-Greg Ballou, Elmwood, Massachusits, Oct 23, 2020, 4:24:47
Looking at things through a different perspective is usually educational and enlightening. According to the Oxford dictionary the term Feminazi is American slang meaning "Strong Willed Woman". The term Feminazi originated more than two decades ago prior to your favorite radio host Rush Limbaugh using it in his first book, "The Way Things Ought To Be". Actually professor Tom Hazlett a regarded professor of economics from the University Of California Davis coined the term. In the words of a female author the term is described as an exaggerated description of a woman's right to advocate so ardently for gender equality that she becomes harshly domineering, dictatorial or intolerant.
MS or modern sexism measures covert or subtle form of sexism, IMHO the depiction was either overt or blatant, the radicals perceived it as blatant and then the complaints were registered, at that point the apologies were written and all hell broke out.
I mentioned earlier that my wife was involved with defense lawsuit against Beechcraft, she was chosen to go through the same program as the perished pilot. The question was asked of me did I think she was chosen because she was a female and that would be one step higher than a chimp for the defense, mind you, it was a female that asked that question. My reply was direct and to the point, "My Wife Took That As An Opportunity, Not Taking Would Have Done More Damage To Her Advancements In Female Aviation, sorry you do not feel the same way.
In an earlier post Dan mentioned the removal of the sexist pictures from the workplace except for the boob clock. I had a similar experience when a young Feminazi demanded that a wall picture of a B-17 with great nose art of a big boob sexy lady be removed from a mans office. Fortunately she was not successful, the picture was of the B-17 that his father gave his life for in WWll. Yet she was the Feminazi that came to the office most every day with her very revealing tits exposing in a n extremely revealing top, I could not help just taking a look at those puppies from time to time. In your eyes I guess that made me a sexist.
Let me close this by saying, there is such thing as cause and effect, Taking something completely out of context and making it a bigger issue that it should be is the real problem .
I probably have said enough on this issue, I hope that I have enlightened you and a few others . Bob Youngblood

Just a quick recap for everyones Google search pleasure.

"Yet she was the Feminazi that came to the office most every day with her very revealing tits exposing in a n extremely revealing top, I could not help just taking a look at those puppies from time to time. In your eyes I guess that made me a sexist.
-Bob Youngblood, Vero Beach, Florida, October 27th, 2:43PM

"Mark, you make a great point , the apology should be from these Feminazi organizers whose mission was only to create conflict. This Femitifa approach should not be tolerated, solution, defund the WSPA as part or association with the SSA. "
-Bob Youngblood, Vero Beach, Florida, Oct 20, 2020, 12:03:12

"The complaints and the sniveling apologies are appalling. And the woman in the ad would be more attractive if she had kept her mouth shut."
-Greg Ballou, Elmwood, Massachusits, Oct 21, 2020, 12:49:44

"Poor women, women have lost a lot since the 1950's if you think being a childless corporate whore is better than being a stay at home mother you need to talk to some honest women.
-Greg Ballou, Elmwood, Massachusits, Oct 23, 2020, 4:24:47

-Mitch

On Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 2:58:49 PM UTC-6, Kimmine and Mitch Hudson wrote:
Just a quick recap for everyones Google search pleasure.
"Yet she was the Feminazi that came to the office most every day with her very revealing tits exposing in a n extremely revealing top, I could not help just taking a look at those puppies from time to time. In your eyes I guess that made me a sexist.
-Bob Youngblood, Vero Beach, Florida, October 27th, 2:43PM
"Mark, you make a great point , the apology should be from these Feminazi organizers whose mission was only to create conflict. This Femitifa approach should not be tolerated, solution, defund the WSPA as part or association with the SSA. "
-Bob Youngblood, Vero Beach, Florida, Oct 20, 2020, 12:03:12

"The complaints and the sniveling apologies are appalling. And the woman in the ad would be more attractive if she had kept her mouth shut."
-Greg Ballou, Elmwood, Massachusetts, Oct 21, 2020, 12:49:44

"Poor women, women have lost a lot since the 1950's if you think being a childless corporate whore is better than being a stay at home mother you need to talk to some honest women.
-Greg Ballou, Elmwood, Massachusetts, Oct 23, 2020, 4:24:47
-Mitch

*Edit: Incorrect spelling was pointed out to me, by a woman. So I fixed my crap. Sorry for spelling errors.. :-)

On Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 5:04:06 PM UTC-4, Kimmine and Mitch Hudson wrote:
On Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 2:58:49 PM UTC-6, Kimmine and Mitch Hudson wrote:
Just a quick recap for everyones Google search pleasure.
"Yet she was the Feminazi that came to the office most every day with her very revealing tits exposing in a n extremely revealing top, I could not help just taking a look at those puppies from time to time. In your eyes I guess that made me a sexist.
-Bob Youngblood, Vero Beach, Florida, October 27th, 2:43PM
"Mark, you make a great point , the apology should be from these Feminazi organizers whose mission was only to create conflict. This Femitifa approach should not be tolerated, solution, defund the WSPA as part or association with the SSA. "
-Bob Youngblood, Vero Beach, Florida, Oct 20, 2020, 12:03:12

"The complaints and the sniveling apologies are appalling. And the woman in the ad would be more attractive if she had kept her mouth shut."
-Greg Ballou, Elmwood, Massachusetts, Oct 21, 2020, 12:49:44

"Poor women, women have lost a lot since the 1950's if you think being a childless corporate whore is better than being a stay at home mother you need to talk to some honest women.
-Greg Ballou, Elmwood, Massachusetts, Oct 23, 2020, 4:24:47
-Mitch

*Edit: Incorrect spelling was pointed out to me, by a woman. So I fixed my crap. Sorry for spelling errors.. :-)
Why bother not anyone cares, I do not use spell check either

The original ad was an unfortunate mis-step. I am proud of how swiftly and respectfully the SSA and SSF handled the situation.
Some of the posts in this thread however are absolutely inappropriate. The dis-service done to our community as a whole by those posts are far more damaging than the original error to which good faith efforts are being made to rectify, learn, and move forward.
I am extremely glad there are people here willing to call out these action and those that made them. I hope this will stand as a record and push people towards the reality that all of us in some aspect or another would do well to open our minds and be willing to listen to one another. And that we will not stand for this kind of behavior in our community.

If you have a problem with the SSA and SSF's decision to fix a true mistake and include a group of our soaring family that deserves every ounce of respect as anyone else, I would beg you to take some time away from the keyboard to really reflect on what you are advocating for here. There is no plot or organized attack going on.. there is nothing to lose and only positive change to gain by the apology that sparked this thread. None of us want to admit that we may have improper visions of what's going on. But if culture is going to advance in a positive way then individuals must also change.. and that is quite often the hardest part.

- Freddie, Y4

On Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 5:04:06 PM UTC-4, Kimmine and Mitch Hudson wrote:
On Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 2:58:49 PM UTC-6, Kimmine and Mitch Hudson wrote:
Just a quick recap for everyones Google search pleasure.
"Yet she was the Feminazi that came to the office most every day with her very revealing tits exposing in a n extremely revealing top, I could not help just taking a look at those puppies from time to time. In your eyes I guess that made me a sexist.
-Bob Youngblood, Vero Beach, Florida, October 27th, 2:43PM
"Mark, you make a great point , the apology should be from these Feminazi organizers whose mission was only to create conflict. This Femitifa approach should not be tolerated, solution, defund the WSPA as part or association with the SSA. "
-Bob Youngblood, Vero Beach, Florida, Oct 20, 2020, 12:03:12

"The complaints and the sniveling apologies are appalling. And the woman in the ad would be more attractive if she had kept her mouth shut."
-Greg Ballou, Elmwood, Massachusetts, Oct 21, 2020, 12:49:44

"Poor women, women have lost a lot since the 1950's if you think being a childless corporate whore is better than being a stay at home mother you need to talk to some honest women.
-Greg Ballou, Elmwood, Massachusetts, Oct 23, 2020, 4:24:47
-Mitch

*Edit: Incorrect spelling was pointed out to me, by a woman. So I fixed my crap. Sorry for spelling errors.. :-)
Kimmine, I will ask you one question, please tell the group what have you done to advance soaring in the last several years. I will be glad to tell you what I have done that benefited both genders. I anxiously await your answer. Bob

Yesterday, I said I was done. Sorry, but this thread just cracked the list of the Ten Most Viewed RAS Discussions in the past 12 months. Unfortunately, it's also now at the top of my personal list of the most embarrassing and dispiriting discussions in the over 50 years I've been involved in soaring..

I feel like we're speaking two different languages. One post this morning attempts to compare Bob Youngblood's and Gregg Ballou's insulting and misogynistic invectives with Cindy Brickner's assertion that although not all men behave abominably, the few who do make the rest of the male gender look bad. Based on what I've seen in this thread, I actually think Cindy was being kind.

Almost as astonishing to me is that most offenders chose to double down rather than reconsider and "walk back" their earlier statements. The latest effort involves trying to justify the use of the term "Feminazi" and concludes with "she was the Feminazi that came to the office most every day with her very revealing tits exposing in a n extremely revealing top, I could not help just taking a look at those puppies from time to time."

No, Bob, IMO, looking discretely may not be sexist but talking about it this way DEFINITELY is. You're not far away from "but Your Honor, she was asking for it with the way she dressed!"

Take a look at the movie "The Accused", for which Jodie Foster won an Oscar.. It's about a horrific gang rape of a woman who dressed and behaved provocatively, which is obviously WAY beyond anything that has occurred here so don't start bleating that I'm out of control. There's an interesting bit of trivia:

"Following the test screenings, the film received the lowest scores in the history of Paramount. According to [producer Sherry] Lansing, "The audience thought that Jodie's character deserved the rape." The studio executives wanted to put the film on the shelf and were looking for ways to prevent it from being released. Lansing asked for another screening with just women, which was far more successful. Of the 20 women in the room, 18 had experience with rape — either they or someone they knew had been raped. When tested again months later, it was given one of the highest scores in studio's history."

The point is that men and women think about things differently. I don't pretend to be an expert. And it's frustrating as hell sometimes. But when a woman tells me she's offended or hurt because of something that I or someone else did, I try to understand. Sometimes, if we're lucky, I explain what I meant and she explains why she reacted the way she did and we move on, both wiser. But much of the time we just see things from different perspectives, partly because women are different but also because their lives are very different. Men make jokes about how they'd love it if women oggled them and made lewd comments about their bodies. They probably wouldn't appreciate it, however, if they were in a maximum security prison and big, burly convicts were making the same comments. Perspective and disparate power matter.

I'll close by focusing on something you said in your response to me.

"Making assertations of sexism had no place in soaring, that agenda went out a long time ago and that is what most are saying. Many continue to bloviate and cast many views of disparity, but actually we are all on the same page."

No, Bob, we're clearly NOT on the same page. Making assertions of sexism DOES have a place in soaring just as should assertions of racism or discrimination or injustice of any kind if they occur. That I haven't seen this before says less about soaring, I fear, than it does about the way I have naively believed most of us really do share common values.

The rules of civilized society aren't suspended just because we're involved in a wonderful sport. Using soaring as a platform for every imagined slight or to advance your own agenda at the expense of others? No, none of us wants that. But calling out offensive behavior? Yes. And from what started out as reasonable objections to an unfortunate ad, the most offensive behavior has come from some of the posters on this thread.

I like 9B's comment: you guys really picked the wrong hill to die on. And that's what's happening every time one of you tries to justify your behavior..

Chip Bearden
JB