The Apology

On Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 2:58:49 PM UTC-6, Kimmine and Mitch Hudson wrote:
Just a quick recap for everyones Google search pleasure.
"Yet she was the Feminazi that came to the office most every day with her very revealing tits exposing in a n extremely revealing top, I could not help just taking a look at those puppies from time to time. In your eyes I guess that made me a sexist.
-Bob Youngblood, Vero Beach, Florida, October 27th, 2:43PM
"Mark, you make a great point , the apology should be from these Feminazi organizers whose mission was only to create conflict. This Femitifa approach should not be tolerated, solution, defund the WSPA as part or association with the SSA. "
-Bob Youngblood, Vero Beach, Florida, Oct 20, 2020, 12:03:12

"The complaints and the sniveling apologies are appalling. And the woman in the ad would be more attractive if she had kept her mouth shut."
-Greg Ballou, Elmwood, Massachusetts, Oct 21, 2020, 12:49:44

"Poor women, women have lost a lot since the 1950's if you think being a childless corporate whore is better than being a stay at home mother you need to talk to some honest women.
-Greg Ballou, Elmwood, Massachusetts, Oct 23, 2020, 4:24:47
-Mitch

*Edit: Incorrect spelling was pointed out to me, by a woman. So I fixed my crap. Sorry for spelling errors.. :-)

On Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 5:04:06 PM UTC-4, Kimmine and Mitch Hudson wrote:
On Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 2:58:49 PM UTC-6, Kimmine and Mitch Hudson wrote:
Just a quick recap for everyones Google search pleasure.
"Yet she was the Feminazi that came to the office most every day with her very revealing tits exposing in a n extremely revealing top, I could not help just taking a look at those puppies from time to time. In your eyes I guess that made me a sexist.
-Bob Youngblood, Vero Beach, Florida, October 27th, 2:43PM
"Mark, you make a great point , the apology should be from these Feminazi organizers whose mission was only to create conflict. This Femitifa approach should not be tolerated, solution, defund the WSPA as part or association with the SSA. "
-Bob Youngblood, Vero Beach, Florida, Oct 20, 2020, 12:03:12

"The complaints and the sniveling apologies are appalling. And the woman in the ad would be more attractive if she had kept her mouth shut."
-Greg Ballou, Elmwood, Massachusetts, Oct 21, 2020, 12:49:44

"Poor women, women have lost a lot since the 1950's if you think being a childless corporate whore is better than being a stay at home mother you need to talk to some honest women.
-Greg Ballou, Elmwood, Massachusetts, Oct 23, 2020, 4:24:47
-Mitch

*Edit: Incorrect spelling was pointed out to me, by a woman. So I fixed my crap. Sorry for spelling errors.. :-)
Why bother not anyone cares, I do not use spell check either

The original ad was an unfortunate mis-step. I am proud of how swiftly and respectfully the SSA and SSF handled the situation.
Some of the posts in this thread however are absolutely inappropriate. The dis-service done to our community as a whole by those posts are far more damaging than the original error to which good faith efforts are being made to rectify, learn, and move forward.
I am extremely glad there are people here willing to call out these action and those that made them. I hope this will stand as a record and push people towards the reality that all of us in some aspect or another would do well to open our minds and be willing to listen to one another. And that we will not stand for this kind of behavior in our community.

If you have a problem with the SSA and SSF's decision to fix a true mistake and include a group of our soaring family that deserves every ounce of respect as anyone else, I would beg you to take some time away from the keyboard to really reflect on what you are advocating for here. There is no plot or organized attack going on.. there is nothing to lose and only positive change to gain by the apology that sparked this thread. None of us want to admit that we may have improper visions of what's going on. But if culture is going to advance in a positive way then individuals must also change.. and that is quite often the hardest part.

- Freddie, Y4

On Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 5:04:06 PM UTC-4, Kimmine and Mitch Hudson wrote:
On Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 2:58:49 PM UTC-6, Kimmine and Mitch Hudson wrote:
Just a quick recap for everyones Google search pleasure.
"Yet she was the Feminazi that came to the office most every day with her very revealing tits exposing in a n extremely revealing top, I could not help just taking a look at those puppies from time to time. In your eyes I guess that made me a sexist.
-Bob Youngblood, Vero Beach, Florida, October 27th, 2:43PM
"Mark, you make a great point , the apology should be from these Feminazi organizers whose mission was only to create conflict. This Femitifa approach should not be tolerated, solution, defund the WSPA as part or association with the SSA. "
-Bob Youngblood, Vero Beach, Florida, Oct 20, 2020, 12:03:12

"The complaints and the sniveling apologies are appalling. And the woman in the ad would be more attractive if she had kept her mouth shut."
-Greg Ballou, Elmwood, Massachusetts, Oct 21, 2020, 12:49:44

"Poor women, women have lost a lot since the 1950's if you think being a childless corporate whore is better than being a stay at home mother you need to talk to some honest women.
-Greg Ballou, Elmwood, Massachusetts, Oct 23, 2020, 4:24:47
-Mitch

*Edit: Incorrect spelling was pointed out to me, by a woman. So I fixed my crap. Sorry for spelling errors.. :-)
Kimmine, I will ask you one question, please tell the group what have you done to advance soaring in the last several years. I will be glad to tell you what I have done that benefited both genders. I anxiously await your answer. Bob

Yesterday, I said I was done. Sorry, but this thread just cracked the list of the Ten Most Viewed RAS Discussions in the past 12 months. Unfortunately, it's also now at the top of my personal list of the most embarrassing and dispiriting discussions in the over 50 years I've been involved in soaring..

I feel like we're speaking two different languages. One post this morning attempts to compare Bob Youngblood's and Gregg Ballou's insulting and misogynistic invectives with Cindy Brickner's assertion that although not all men behave abominably, the few who do make the rest of the male gender look bad. Based on what I've seen in this thread, I actually think Cindy was being kind.

Almost as astonishing to me is that most offenders chose to double down rather than reconsider and "walk back" their earlier statements. The latest effort involves trying to justify the use of the term "Feminazi" and concludes with "she was the Feminazi that came to the office most every day with her very revealing tits exposing in a n extremely revealing top, I could not help just taking a look at those puppies from time to time."

No, Bob, IMO, looking discretely may not be sexist but talking about it this way DEFINITELY is. You're not far away from "but Your Honor, she was asking for it with the way she dressed!"

Take a look at the movie "The Accused", for which Jodie Foster won an Oscar.. It's about a horrific gang rape of a woman who dressed and behaved provocatively, which is obviously WAY beyond anything that has occurred here so don't start bleating that I'm out of control. There's an interesting bit of trivia:

"Following the test screenings, the film received the lowest scores in the history of Paramount. According to [producer Sherry] Lansing, "The audience thought that Jodie's character deserved the rape." The studio executives wanted to put the film on the shelf and were looking for ways to prevent it from being released. Lansing asked for another screening with just women, which was far more successful. Of the 20 women in the room, 18 had experience with rape — either they or someone they knew had been raped. When tested again months later, it was given one of the highest scores in studio's history."

The point is that men and women think about things differently. I don't pretend to be an expert. And it's frustrating as hell sometimes. But when a woman tells me she's offended or hurt because of something that I or someone else did, I try to understand. Sometimes, if we're lucky, I explain what I meant and she explains why she reacted the way she did and we move on, both wiser. But much of the time we just see things from different perspectives, partly because women are different but also because their lives are very different. Men make jokes about how they'd love it if women oggled them and made lewd comments about their bodies. They probably wouldn't appreciate it, however, if they were in a maximum security prison and big, burly convicts were making the same comments. Perspective and disparate power matter.

I'll close by focusing on something you said in your response to me.

"Making assertations of sexism had no place in soaring, that agenda went out a long time ago and that is what most are saying. Many continue to bloviate and cast many views of disparity, but actually we are all on the same page."

No, Bob, we're clearly NOT on the same page. Making assertions of sexism DOES have a place in soaring just as should assertions of racism or discrimination or injustice of any kind if they occur. That I haven't seen this before says less about soaring, I fear, than it does about the way I have naively believed most of us really do share common values.

The rules of civilized society aren't suspended just because we're involved in a wonderful sport. Using soaring as a platform for every imagined slight or to advance your own agenda at the expense of others? No, none of us wants that. But calling out offensive behavior? Yes. And from what started out as reasonable objections to an unfortunate ad, the most offensive behavior has come from some of the posters on this thread.

I like 9B's comment: you guys really picked the wrong hill to die on. And that's what's happening every time one of you tries to justify your behavior..

Chip Bearden
JB

I concur with Chip and Andy - well said.

Mitch (and Kimmine) hardly need me to defend them; but I think they are a bit too modest to respond to your above request, Bob. Also, not sure why you are addressing Kimmine here - but for a start, she worked registration and retrieve desks at 2019 US Club Nats. I like that because I land out frequently. Whenever I see her at a contest, she is working in some capacity to make it happen. As for Mitch - and please correct me if I'm wrong, this is off the top of my head - he crewed for the US team at the 35th Worlds in Poland. As well, I know he has made available his time and personal glider to be used by the US Junior squad.

I don't think this is a good hill either, Bob.

Mike Brooks
XL5

On Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 7:54:10 PM UTC-4, Mike Brooks wrote:
I concur with Chip and Andy - well said.

Mitch (and Kimmine) hardly need me to defend them; but I think they are a bit too modest to respond to your above request, Bob. Also, not sure why you are addressing Kimmine here - but for a start, she worked registration and retrieve desks at 2019 US Club Nats. I like that because I land out frequently. Whenever I see her at a contest, she is working in some capacity to make it happen. As for Mitch - and please correct me if I'm wrong, this is off the top of my head - he crewed for the US team at the 35th Worlds in Poland. As well, I know he has made available his time and personal glider to be used by the US Junior squad.

I don't think this is a good hill either, Bob.

Mike Brooks
XL5
Mike , I will address that to both parties, Mitch and Kimmine. They, I will say they because as you stated I should reply to both of them, so I will ask them the same question. No Andy, don't bury my heart at wounded knee. I have been objective to the complaints since they first appeared.
Chip has personally attacked me along with a few others, but they have offered no substantive defense for which they continue to solidify their position. Kimmine and Mitch objected to the term Feminatzi, when that term was explained both have not commented. I have no problem defending this hill, as stated before, I have no apologies. The problem lies within a group that caused huge divide within our, and I stress our beloved community. I know a bit more than you might think about the ramifications of the depiction, that does not make it right or wrong.
This reminds me of those whom want everything to be politically correct, maybe everyone needs to take a big breathe and look at the ramifications. Mike, Kimmine, Mitch, Freddie, Chip, and Anderson, whom seems to be the most logical of the group, who created the distraction and did it support the consequences? I will await the answer.
I do not agree with their dispersions as to whom is tearing this apart, look into the mirror and see if those recognize anyone.

Mike , I will address that to both parties, Mitch and Kimmine. They, I will say they because as you stated I should reply to both of them, so I will ask them the same question. No Andy, don't bury my heart at wounded knee. I have been objective to the complaints since they first appeared.
Chip has personally attacked me along with a few others, but they have offered no substantive defense for which they continue to solidify their position. Kimmine and Mitch objected to the term Feminatzi, when that term was explained both have not commented. I have no problem defending this hill, as stated before, I have no apologies. The problem lies within a group that caused huge divide within our, and I stress our beloved community. I know a bit more than you might think about the ramifications of the depiction, that does not make it right or wrong.
This reminds me of those whom want everything to be politically correct, maybe everyone needs to take a big breathe and look at the ramifications. Mike, Kimmine, Mitch, Freddie, Chip, and Anderson, whom seems to be the most logical of the group, who created the distraction and did it support the consequences? I will await the answer.
I do not agree with their dispersions as to whom is tearing this apart, look into the mirror and see if those recognize anyone.

Anybody else just sitting there staring at their screen going "what in the hell did I just read?"

Bob. I was really hoping for an "Aha!" moment from you where you stopped for a second and went "yeah, ok, maybe its alright for people that think differently from me to express an opinion, and it may be possible that people with different life experiences than me possibly have valid issues with things that I don't consider to be offensive."

At this point I'll be happy (well, not happy, slightly less disappointed in humanity as a whole) if you stop using words that include "nazi" in them to describe women.

Can you do that? Look, we can treat it like a twelve step program. Let's just get through the next 24 hours. Together. You can do it. I believe in you.. I believe in humanity.

On Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 8:56:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Mike , I will address that to both parties, Mitch and Kimmine. They, I will say they because as you stated I should reply to both of them, so I will ask them the same question. No Andy, don't bury my heart at wounded knee.. I have been objective to the complaints since they first appeared.
Chip has personally attacked me along with a few others, but they have offered no substantive defense for which they continue to solidify their position. Kimmine and Mitch objected to the term Feminatzi, when that term was explained both have not commented. I have no problem defending this hill, as stated before, I have no apologies. The problem lies within a group that caused huge divide within our, and I stress our beloved community. I know a bit more than you might think about the ramifications of the depiction, that does not make it right or wrong.
This reminds me of those whom want everything to be politically correct, maybe everyone needs to take a big breathe and look at the ramifications. Mike, Kimmine, Mitch, Freddie, Chip, and Anderson, whom seems to be the most logical of the group, who created the distraction and did it support the consequences? I will await the answer.
I do not agree with their dispersions as to whom is tearing this apart, look into the mirror and see if those recognize anyone.
Anybody else just sitting there staring at their screen going "what in the hell did I just read?"

Bob. I was really hoping for an "Aha!" moment from you where you stopped for a second and went "yeah, ok, maybe its alright for people that think differently from me to express an opinion, and it may be possible that people with different life experiences than me possibly have valid issues with things that I don't consider to be offensive."

At this point I'll be happy (well, not happy, slightly less disappointed in humanity as a whole) if you stop using words that include "nazi" in them to describe women.

Can you do that? Look, we can treat it like a twelve step program. Let's just get through the next 24 hours. Together. You can do it. I believe in you. I believe in humanity.
Hugh, isn't that what I have said all along, it is all about perception, you need to read my post.

On Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 5:56:03 PM UTC-7, Hugh Grandstaff wrote:
Mike , I will address that to both parties, Mitch and Kimmine. They, I will say they because as you stated I should reply to both of them, so I will ask them the same question. No Andy, don't bury my heart at wounded knee.. I have been objective to the complaints since they first appeared.
Chip has personally attacked me along with a few others, but they have offered no substantive defense for which they continue to solidify their position. Kimmine and Mitch objected to the term Feminatzi, when that term was explained both have not commented. I have no problem defending this hill, as stated before, I have no apologies. The problem lies within a group that caused huge divide within our, and I stress our beloved community. I know a bit more than you might think about the ramifications of the depiction, that does not make it right or wrong.
This reminds me of those whom want everything to be politically correct, maybe everyone needs to take a big breathe and look at the ramifications. Mike, Kimmine, Mitch, Freddie, Chip, and Anderson, whom seems to be the most logical of the group, who created the distraction and did it support the consequences? I will await the answer.
I do not agree with their dispersions as to whom is tearing this apart, look into the mirror and see if those recognize anyone.

Anybody else just sitting there staring at their screen going "what in the hell did I just read?"

Bob. I was really hoping for an "Aha!" moment from you where you stopped for a second and went "yeah, ok, maybe its alright for people that think differently from me to express an opinion, and it may be possible that people with different life experiences than me possibly have valid issues with things that I don't consider to be offensive."

At this point I'll be happy (well, not happy, slightly less disappointed in humanity as a whole) if you stop using words that include "nazi" in them to describe women.

Can you do that? Look, we can treat it like a twelve step program. Let's just get through the next 24 hours. Together. You can do it. I believe in you. I believe in humanity.

Maybe you can also tell us about why it is disrespectful to call us males "pigs."

Tom