Fair Tribunals at Guantanamo? (Was: YANK CHILD ABUSERS :: another reason to kill americans abroad ???)

On 6 Aug 2003 08:45:07 -0700, (vince) wrote:

| The Military occupation of Ireland began under Strongbow

Yeah, like the military occupation of England began under William, the
military occupation of Italy under Roger Giscard or of Palestine under
Geoffrey Boullion.

Apples and oranges. Henry VII was worried that the Anglo-norman
military occupiers of Ireland would use it as a base.

As was Henry II.

Ireland was essentially a proprietary colony. Large land grant were
awarded ... to anglo norman soldier adventurers who coudl then
go and fight to take the land from the locals.

Much like the United States then. When do you intend to end the
military occupation of Nebraska? I mean, really: it's not as if you
have a use for the place.

Gavin Bailey

--

"...this level of misinformation suggests some Americans may be
avoiding having an experience of cognitive dissonance."
- 'Poll shows errors in beliefs on Iraq, 9/11'
The Charlotte Observer, 20th June 2003

On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 15:59:56 GMT, (The
Revolution Will Not Be Televised) wrote:

On 6 Aug 2003 08:45:07 -0700, (vince) wrote:

Ireland was essentially a proprietary colony. Large land grant were
awarded ... to anglo norman soldier adventurers who coudl then
go and fight to take the land from the locals.

Much like the United States then. When do you intend to end the
military occupation of Nebraska? I mean, really: it's not as if you
have a use for the place.

The plans for the colonization of America were directly taken from the
contemporaneous plans for colonizing Ireland. Same layout for
colonies, same lists of supplies for colonists, etc. Read "Martin's
Hundred" by Ivor Noel Hume for more detail and references.

The colonists were, by then, English, not Anglo-Norman. There were
probably some Welsh and Scots colonists, too, of course, but the real
flood of Scots followed Culloden and the Enclosure Acts. A lot of
those Scots ended up in North Carolina, by the way. Gabaldon did her
research well on that one.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 19:45:42 -0700, Mary Shafer
wrote:

Much like the United States then. When do you intend to end the
military occupation of Nebraska? I mean, really: it's not as if you
have a use for the place.

The plans for the colonization of America were directly taken from the
contemporaneous plans for colonizing Ireland.

So, much like the United States, then?

Or any of the other European colonising experiences, including the
period after colonial polities severed ties with their European
colonial governments. As it was, the relevant immediately
pre-Revolutionary US experience was of a British government limiting
further colonisation and expansion westwards, much to the chagrin of
local land speculators and their surveyors with youthful histories of
cherry-tree surgery. Colonisation continued in US history long after
1783.

The colonists were, by then, English, not Anglo-Norman.

Not just English, I'm afraid. Nobody in their right mind could
possibly conceive of the European colonisation of America originating
with the Anglo-Normans (bar Templar fantasists): my original
reference was to the situation in 1170, and the fact that the
Anglo-Norman "colonisation" of Ireland was not uniuque, and like most
similar Norman expansion, cannot be shoe-horned into modern
prejudicial concepts of "colonialism".

There were
probably some Welsh and Scots colonists, too, of course,

There were, alongside all manner of other nationalities. Paul Revere
was not descended from what might not be popularly regarded as common
English stock.

but the real
flood of Scots followed Culloden and the Enclosure Acts. A lot of
those Scots ended up in North Carolina, by the way.

Like Flora MacDonald, perhaps. Remind me of which way they and the
immigrant Irish jumped when the local slave-owning fatcat bigwigs
started to object to central government taxation actually being
actively collected for once.

Gavin Bailey

--

"...this level of misinformation suggests some Americans may be
avoiding having an experience of cognitive dissonance."
- 'Poll shows errors in beliefs on Iraq, 9/11'
The Charlotte Observer, 20th June 2003

(The Revolution Will Not Be Televised) wrote in message ...
On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 19:45:42 -0700, Mary Shafer
wrote:

Much like the United States then. When do you intend to end the
military occupation of Nebraska? I mean, really: it's not as if you
have a use for the place.

The plans for the colonization of America were directly taken from the
contemporaneous plans for colonizing Ireland.

So, much like the United States, then?

No, nothing like the US.
Since not long after the French and got here, we had to tell
them that we had no plans whatsoever for colonizing *America*.
The British can have their Canadian and South Pole wastelands.
The Spanish can have their Andean wasteland.
The French can have Los Angelos, since only
a Frenchman would want Los Angelos.