midair in Bay Area Nov 7

I can only confirm that one flarm was working since I could see him earlier.. He also had ADSB. I know the other glider was equipped with flarm but I don’t know if it was operative.
One of the gliders was my old ASW27.

Ramy

Flarm Antenna placement is critical on ASW-27s because of carbon fiber structure. A single antenna by the glareshield leaves a big blind spot below. After a close encounter with an ASW-28 below, I mounted antennas on both sides of the canopy. Unfortunately FCC does not allow transmit on both antennas.

I wonder if they were at least talking to each other? Ramy, were you hearing anything on the radio? Anyone else?


Boggs

On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 8:39:41 AM UTC-8, Waveguru wrote:
I wonder if they were at least talking to each other? Ramy, were you hearing anything on the radio? Anyone else?


Boggs
They were not talking to each other and not aware of each other. They didn’t see each other until a split second before impact. One of the flarms was inop due to expired firmware. They were both cruising under a cloud street and collided head on at 5300 ft MSL (3500 AGL) with their left wings significantly damaging the wings. Both gliders entered vertical or negative dive which helped them bailing out quickly as they fell of the gliders as soon as they released the seat belts. One pilot was mostly unscratched, the other was hospitalized due to hard landing on a slope and is recovering from back injury.
I urge everyone to make sure to fly with operative powerflarm and upgrade the powerflarm firmware every year during the annual.

Ramy

I urge everyone to make sure to fly with operative powerflarm and upgrade the powerflarm firmware every year during the annual.

Indeed, during the annual. The perfect time to do it and then you'll not be later questioning, did I or didn't I?
A PSA is probably worth doing through RAS with a little how-to in spring for those of us in Northern Hemisphere. I always found those helpful.

Yikes! This is the THIRD collision I've heard of in the last year and a half between PowerFLARM equipped aircraft where one of the PowerFLARMs is not working. In the first two cases the towplane PowerFLARM was not operating, one because of undisclosed issues, the other because the towpilot was taxiing back to the hangar without turning on the PowerFLARM when a glider at the end of its landing run pulled in front.

3 Missed Opportunities
5 Write Offs
2 Fatalities
1 Hospitalisation

How much has/will your insurance go(ne) up ?

OK...I am ready to get flamed.
I have flown with a PowerFlarm for several years.
False alarms. Searching frantically for aircraft that I just never see or do not exist.
Flying with a group, all with Flarm, and several do not show on my screen because they have carbon fuselages and antennas that are blocked.
Flying head to head with another Flarm aircraft and no display.
Having other pilots inform me that they saw my plane on their screens when I was not flying...multiple times!
The programing and configuration issues are just too much.
My system is updated and confirmed with and by experts.
But, most are not.
For me, it has not been a dependable, reliable, predictable piece of equipment.
My experiences in France have been much better.
My understanding is that those systems are overseen/verified/inspected by aircraft mechanics.
Here in the USA...the Flarm system mostly increases my anxiety and complicates my flying day.

On 11/16/20 6:51 PM, George Haeh wrote:
Yikes! This is the THIRD collision I've heard of in the last year and a half between PowerFLARM equipped aircraft where one of the PowerFLARMs is not working. In the first two cases the towplane PowerFLARM was not operating, one because of undisclosed issues, the other because the towpilot was taxiing back to the hangar without turning on the PowerFLARM when a glider at the end of its landing run pulled in front.

3 Missed Opportunities
5 Write Offs
2 Fatalities
1 Hospitalisation

How much has/will your insurance go(ne) up ?


Kinda makes one wonder how many of these collisions would have happened
in the era before Flarm. You know, when pilots actually looked outside
more often.

--
Dan
5J

On Monday, November 16, 2020 at 7:10:11 PM UTC-6, Ramy wrote:
On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 8:39:41 AM UTC-8, Waveguru wrote:
I wonder if they were at least talking to each other? Ramy, were you hearing anything on the radio? Anyone else?


Boggs
They were not talking to each other and not aware of each other. They didn’t see each other until a split second before impact. One of the flarms was inop due to expired firmware. They were both cruising under a cloud street and collided head on at 5300 ft MSL (3500 AGL) with their left wings significantly damaging the wings. Both gliders entered vertical or negative dive which helped them bailing out quickly as they fell of the gliders as soon as they released the seat belts. One pilot was mostly unscratched, the other was hospitalized due to hard landing on a slope and is recovering from back injury.
I urge everyone to make sure to fly with operative powerflarm and upgrade the powerflarm firmware every year during the annual.

Ramy

I hope FLARM realizes how lucky they are that the pilot did not die. They intentionally program a piece of safety equipment to brick itself once a year which then directly leads to the loss of life? I can see the crying widow in the courtroom now. Not pretty.

Do you realize how irrational that comment is? It is entirely up to the pilot to update, they have a year to do it (firmware works for 2 years with a year overlap). If the pilot chooses, he can not have his parachute repacked, or not bother with the wing pins too. This should have the parachute and glider manufacturer quaking in their boots. In addition, it suggests flight is not possible without Flarm, which of course it used to be and often still is. I'm pretty sure every Flarm display will signal quite loudly that the firmware is inop. The alternative is to have a static system.

This is not to cast aspersions on the pilot, whom I know to be conscientious, plenty of people have and will again fly without or with inop Flarm. But to blame the manufacturer for this accident is ludicrous. If neither pilot had Flarm (legal and common) the outcome would be the same.

On Monday, November 16, 2020 at 5:36:13 PM UTC-8, Tony wrote:
On Monday, November 16, 2020 at 7:10:11 PM UTC-6, Ramy wrote:
On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 8:39:41 AM UTC-8, Waveguru wrote:
I wonder if they were at least talking to each other? Ramy, were you hearing anything on the radio? Anyone else?


Boggs
They were not talking to each other and not aware of each other. They didn’t see each other until a split second before impact. One of the flarms was inop due to expired firmware. They were both cruising under a cloud street and collided head on at 5300 ft MSL (3500 AGL) with their left wings significantly damaging the wings. Both gliders entered vertical or negative dive which helped them bailing out quickly as they fell of the gliders as soon as they released the seat belts. One pilot was mostly unscratched, the other was hospitalized due to hard landing on a slope and is recovering from back injury.
I urge everyone to make sure to fly with operative powerflarm and upgrade the powerflarm firmware every year during the annual.

Ramy
I hope FLARM realizes how lucky they are that the pilot did not die. They intentionally program a piece of safety equipment to brick itself once a year which then directly leads to the loss of life? I can see the crying widow in the courtroom now. Not pretty.