Guns on fighters?

On 8/9/03 5:24 PM, in article
, "Eric Moore"
wrote:

snip

And that takes me to my biggest beef with Navy hardware choices of late:
although the USAF F-35A will have an internal gun, the Navy F-35B will not.
It will have the possibility of carrying a gun in a pod in one of the two
big internal bays, which is the same as saying it is not gona happen, babe.

Lets hope for some high brass with a mean disposition to throw a stupendous
tantrum... put a gun on the F-35B right now, and, BTW, Boeing, come over
here and tell me why the Super Bug still has those 4 degrees toed-out
pylons!
_____________
José Herculano


The Navy didn't go for an internal gun on the F-4J/S, or the A-6 either,
how big of a disadvantage was that?

Would have helped to have a gun on an Intruder during Operation Preying
Mantis. Strafing is quite effective in close quarters and for SuW... And if
you don't have a gun in A/A it sucks to have to open the range and rely on
the min range missile shots.

There were a bunch of thankful troops on the ground in Afghanistan during
Operation Condor that the F/A-18 had a GAU.

The Navy fixed their error on the F-4J/S.

The F-35 doesn't have one (on the Navy version) but needs one. This is
another case of the engineers (and budgeteers) believing their own
arithmetic and sacrificing capability... Make it single engine and don't
install a gun... See? The numbers don't lie. It'll work.

Meanwhile operators are shaking their heads... again.

--Woody

Didn't the F-106 and F-111 have provisions for a Vulcan cannon in the
weapon bay? Was this setup ever used in anger?
Have they decided what kind of gun the F-35 will have?
Also, what's the status of the laser weapon that was to be fitted in
the F-35 weapon bay?
Just curious.

Woody,

Would have helped to have a gun on an Intruder

I agree that having a gun would have been a good thing during Preying Mantis
(taking out oil platforms). I can't agree that the Intruder would have been
the right bird for guns. During 1988 the A-7 was still lurking about, so
it's not as if we didn't have gun assets available. I presume the A-6E
COULD carry rockets (as its predecessor Intruder variants could), and so
augment the gunfire from the Thalidomide Crusader.

Then there's the old conundrum about what tradeoffs you'd need to make, to
retrofit a gun into any aircraft not already "gun-ready". With the
Intruder, this would most likely have meant a pod. The expression, "sailors
and pods don't mix very well", was already gaining currency during the early
1970s with the intro of the EA-6B to the fleet.

Since the A-6's primary mission was all-wx attack a gun - at best - would
only have been a "nice to have".

Owl sends.
--
Mike Kanze

436 Greenbrier Road
Half Moon Bay, California 94019-2259
USA

650-726-7890

"Vegetarian (vej ' i târ ' ee en), n. Amerindian term meaning "lousy
hunter".


"Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal" wrote in message
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On 8/10/03 9:55 AM, in article , "Mike
Kanze" wrote:

Woody,

Would have helped to have a gun on an Intruder

I agree that having a gun would have been a good thing during Preying Mantis
(taking out oil platforms). I can't agree that the Intruder would have been
the right bird for guns. During 1988 the A-7 was still lurking about, so
it's not as if we didn't have gun assets available. I presume the A-6E
COULD carry rockets (as its predecessor Intruder variants could), and so
augment the gunfire from the Thalidomide Crusader.

Then there's the old conundrum about what tradeoffs you'd need to make, to
retrofit a gun into any aircraft not already "gun-ready". With the
Intruder, this would most likely have meant a pod. The expression, "sailors
and pods don't mix very well", was already gaining currency during the early
1970s with the intro of the EA-6B to the fleet.

Since the A-6's primary mission was all-wx attack a gun - at best - would
only have been a "nice to have".

Owl sends.

Owl,

All very true. Oil platforms, Boghammers etc... They zig, you simply follow
them with bullets.

OBTW, never saw it except in TACMAN pictures, but the Intruder DID have a
gun pod designed for it. All the ordies and gunners I talked to had never
seen one either. Apparently, you dialed in a mil setting and fired it in
the manual mode with the pickle button--kinda goofy from a pilot/human
factors standpoint (my opinion only).

Of course as a former B/N, you already know that the A-6E did carry rockets.
In fact, I had the opportunity to employ every rocket delivery possible from
the Intruder... Straight Path, Manual, General, Loft (NOT High Loft
though)--both pilot and B/N designates--Zuni's and 2.75's. I'm not the ace
of the base, just happened to get scheduled for 3 rocket hops with 2 full
pods each and lots of range time. MAARP's were great in the old days.
Problem is WRT PREYING MANTIS: Rockets not allowed on ship. You wouldn't
believe how many of my Hornet contemporaries these days that have never even
SEEN a rocket pod (even though they should have during advanced strike in
A-4's).

There would have been some definite tradeoff to include a gun on the A-6
from its inception, but the design was a bit myopic from a mission
standpoint, so we got what we got. I was always a bit jealous of the A-7's
gun... Always seemed like it would have been a fun thing to strafe the wake
after mission tanking. Ah the reminiscing...

--Woody

Woody,

Thanks for filling in some gaps in my dated knowledge.

OBTW, never saw it except in TACMAN pictures, but the Intruder DID have a
gun pod designed for it.

Interesting. I can visualize the trenchant comments from the 1973 Green
Lizard Ordie Shop on THAT one.

Of course as a former B/N, you already know that the A-6E did carry
rockets.

I always assumed this to be the case, but since my Intruder career ended in
1974 - with only A, B (PAT ARM) and K time in my logbook - I wasn't sure.
At the time the E Standard was just beginning to appear at Oceana but none
had come yet to Whidbey. And of course the E Standard was soon superseded
by the E TRAM.

All that we had on the Rock in 1974 was an E Standard cockpit mockup in the
VA-128 Ready Room that was no more informative than the $.50 kiddie rides
outside the Oak Harbor food stores.

Rockets not allowed on ship.

What was the thinking behind that one - spurious ignition worries? Still
the case? Allowed ashore only?

To me, rockets are a great way of equipping a non-gun aircraft with a cheap
forward-firing air-to-surface weapon that consumes no internal space and
gives very good hitting power. Only question in my mind is - how often will
such a weapon be required in the future for air-to-surface work? (I know
our Marine Corps brethren have a ready answer to that question.)

Owl sends.
--
Mike Kanze

436 Greenbrier Road
Half Moon Bay, California 94019-2259
USA

650-726-7890

"Vegetarian (vej ' i târ ' ee en), n. Amerindian term meaning "lousy
hunter".


"Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal" wrote in message
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