PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Many newstandard Features!

Moshe Braner wrote on 11/19/2020 9:31 AM:
On 11/19/2020 11:12 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
On 11/18/20 4:41 PM, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
According to Flarm the New Fusion transmits and receives on both A and B Flarm Antennas.

http://www.craggyaero.com/fusion.htm



Richard
www.craggyaero.com


That looks to me like you can buy a license to activate the "B" antenna. **Isn't that like
buying a license to active the passenger side seat belt in a car?* Or the rear brakes?


Maybe if you pay extra they'll sell you the feature where it keeps on working after the
firmware "expires"?* (As long as the data packets are still compatible.)

Dan: We have no choice about seat belts and brakes, which are mandated by law. Do you want to
go there with PowerFlarm? :^(

Dan: Buying a license for an optional feature (also known as "buying an optional feature") is
like buying the "primo" optional interior for your new car, except you can do it anytime, even
years after the purchase, unlike that fancy interior. Would you rather they included everything
that is now optional, and charged you for it, instead letting you pay for only what you need?


Moshe: They give me the updates FREE anytime I want one. I'm not going to whine about the 10
minutes it takes me to read the update instructions and load it into the glider. The present
system seems like a good compromise: all units are no more than 1 year behind in capability, at
no $ cost, and very little time and effort. As pilots, we are required to "update" our gliders
every year with an inspection, to "update" the pilot every two years with a flight review, to
keep our charts and database current yearly or less, to "update" our parachute every 180 days -
I think we should expect a pilot to also handle updating Flarm!

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On 11/19/20 11:21 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Moshe Braner wrote on 11/19/2020 9:31 AM:
On 11/19/2020 11:12 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
On 11/18/20 4:41 PM, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
According to Flarm the New Fusion transmits and receives on both A
and B Flarm Antennas.

http://www.craggyaero.com/fusion.htm



Richard
www.craggyaero.com


That looks to me like you can buy a license to activate the "B"
antenna. Â*Â*Isn't that like buying a license to active the passenger
side seat belt in a car?Â* Or the rear brakes?


Maybe if you pay extra they'll sell you the feature where it keeps on
working after the firmware "expires"?Â* (As long as the data packets
are still compatible.)

Dan: We have no choice about seat belts and brakes, which are mandated
by law. Do you want to go there with PowerFlarm? :^(

Dan: Buying a license for an optional feature (also known as "buying an
optional feature") is like buying the "primo" optional interior for your
new car, except you can do it anytime, even years after the purchase,
unlike that fancy interior. Would you rather they included everything
that is now optional, and charged you for it, instead letting you pay
for only what you need?


Moshe: They give me the updates FREE anytime I want one. I'm not going
to whine about the 10 minutes it takes me to read the update
instructions and load it into the glider. The present system seems like
a good compromise: all units are no more than 1 year behind in
capability, at no $ cost, and very little time and effort. As pilots, we
are required to "update" our gliders every year with an inspection, to
"update" the pilot every two years with a flight review, to keep our
charts and database current yearly or less, to "update" our parachute
every 180 days - I think we should expect a pilot to also handle
updating Flarm!


I think Dan was talking about paying extra to turn on features, such as
audio output jack, IGC logging, ENL for IGC logging, using the B
antenna, etc. This new PowerFlarm makes that stuff standard, rather
than an la carte.

The documentation provided by Richard shows the flarm B antenna being
usable as standard, but as a receive only antenna. I expect it can
transmit, but only if the FCC ever approves that.

On this page I show it as a feature bottom of table..

http://www.craggyaero.com/fusion.htm

We will see when Flarm answers the question I emailed this morning.

Does the Fusion transmit Flarm on both A & B antennas FCC approved in the USA.


Richard
www.craggyaero.com

On 11/19/20 1:58 PM, kinsell wrote:
On 11/19/20 11:21 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Moshe Braner wrote on 11/19/2020 9:31 AM:
On 11/19/2020 11:12 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
On 11/18/20 4:41 PM, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
According to Flarm the New Fusion transmits and receives on both A
and B Flarm Antennas.

http://www.craggyaero.com/fusion.htm



Richard
www.craggyaero.com


That looks to me like you can buy a license to activate the "B"
antenna. Â*Â*Isn't that like buying a license to active the passenger
side seat belt in a car?Â* Or the rear brakes?


Maybe if you pay extra they'll sell you the feature where it keeps on
working after the firmware "expires"?Â* (As long as the data packets
are still compatible.)

Dan: We have no choice about seat belts and brakes, which are mandated
by law. Do you want to go there with PowerFlarm? :^(

Dan: Buying a license for an optional feature (also known as "buying
an optional feature") is like buying the "primo" optional interior for
your new car, except you can do it anytime, even years after the
purchase, unlike that fancy interior. Would you rather they included
everything that is now optional, and charged you for it, instead
letting you pay for only what you need?


Moshe: They give me the updates FREE anytime I want one. I'm not going
to whine about the 10 minutes it takes me to read the update
instructions and load it into the glider. The present system seems
like a good compromise: all units are no more than 1 year behind in
capability, at no $ cost, and very little time and effort. As pilots,
we are required to "update" our gliders every year with an inspection,
to "update" the pilot every two years with a flight review, to keep
our charts and database current yearly or less, to "update" our
parachute every 180 days - I think we should expect a pilot to also
handle updating Flarm!


I think Dan was talking about paying extra to turn on features, such as
audio output jack, IGC logging, ENL for IGC logging, using the B
antenna, etc.Â* This new PowerFlarm makes that stuff standard, rather
than an la carte.

The documentation provided by Richard shows the flarm B antenna being
usable as standard, but as a receive only antenna.Â* I expect it can
transmit, but only if the FCC ever approves that.

Oh crap! You mean I'd have to pay to have the audio jack enabled,
too??? Good thing my ClearNav has its own Bitchin' Betty and at no
extra charge. ;-)

--
Dan
5J

On 11/19/2020 1:21 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Moshe Braner wrote on 11/19/2020 9:31 AM:
On 11/19/2020 11:12 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
On 11/18/20 4:41 PM, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
According to Flarm the New Fusion transmits and receives on both A
and B Flarm Antennas.

http://www.craggyaero.com/fusion.htm



Richard
www.craggyaero.com


That looks to me like you can buy a license to activate the "B"
antenna. Â*Â*Isn't that like buying a license to active the passenger
side seat belt in a car?Â* Or the rear brakes?


Maybe if you pay extra they'll sell you the feature where it keeps on
working after the firmware "expires"?Â* (As long as the data packets
are still compatible.)

Dan: We have no choice about seat belts and brakes, which are mandated
by law. Do you want to go there with PowerFlarm? :^(

Dan: Buying a license for an optional feature (also known as "buying an
optional feature") is like buying the "primo" optional interior for your
new car, except you can do it anytime, even years after the purchase,
unlike that fancy interior. Would you rather they included everything
that is now optional, and charged you for it, instead letting you pay
for only what you need?


Moshe: They give me the updates FREE anytime I want one. I'm not going
to whine about the 10 minutes it takes me to read the update
instructions and load it into the glider. The present system seems like
a good compromise: all units are no more than 1 year behind in
capability, at no $ cost, and very little time and effort. As pilots, we
are required to "update" our gliders every year with an inspection, to
"update" the pilot every two years with a flight review, to keep our
charts and database current yearly or less, to "update" our parachute
every 180 days - I think we should expect a pilot to also handle
updating Flarm!


I have no problem with the updates, I do them, and certainly recommend
everybody do them. My problem is with it stopping to operate if for
whatever reason somebody didn't do the update yet, even if in fact the
data exchanged still allows interoperability. That is an unnecessary
hit to safety, for everybody around. And it may have contributed to the
recent collision we were discussing. There are better ways to nudge
people to update the firmware.

On 11/19/20 3:06 PM, Moshe Braner wrote:
On 11/19/2020 1:21 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Moshe Braner wrote on 11/19/2020 9:31 AM:
On 11/19/2020 11:12 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
On 11/18/20 4:41 PM, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
According to Flarm the New Fusion transmits and receives on both A
and B Flarm Antennas.

http://www.craggyaero.com/fusion.htm



Richard
www.craggyaero.com


That looks to me like you can buy a license to activate the "B"
antenna. Â*Â*Isn't that like buying a license to active the passenger
side seat belt in a car?Â* Or the rear brakes?


Maybe if you pay extra they'll sell you the feature where it keeps on
working after the firmware "expires"?Â* (As long as the data packets
are still compatible.)

Dan: We have no choice about seat belts and brakes, which are mandated
by law. Do you want to go there with PowerFlarm? :^(

Dan: Buying a license for an optional feature (also known as "buying
an optional feature") is like buying the "primo" optional interior for
your new car, except you can do it anytime, even years after the
purchase, unlike that fancy interior. Would you rather they included
everything that is now optional, and charged you for it, instead
letting you pay for only what you need?


Moshe: They give me the updates FREE anytime I want one. I'm not going
to whine about the 10 minutes it takes me to read the update
instructions and load it into the glider. The present system seems
like a good compromise: all units are no more than 1 year behind in
capability, at no $ cost, and very little time and effort. As pilots,
we are required to "update" our gliders every year with an inspection,
to "update" the pilot every two years with a flight review, to keep
our charts and database current yearly or less, to "update" our
parachute every 180 days - I think we should expect a pilot to also
handle updating Flarm!


I have no problem with the updates, I do them, and certainly recommend
everybody do them.Â* My problem is with it stopping to operate if for
whatever reason somebody didn't do the update yet, even if in fact the
data exchanged still allows interoperability.Â* That is an unnecessary
hit to safety, for everybody around.Â* And it may have contributed to the
recent collision we were discussing.Â* There are better ways to nudge
people to update the firmware.

I just updated to firmware version 7.02 today. According to my computer
files, the date on the previous firmware was December 2019, so I guess I
was in no danger of a loss of function. I went back to my glider's
logbook and added this update to the end of the last annual inspection
writeup. Next year, at annual, my IA will remind me that I need to
update the Flarm.

--
Dan
5J

Moshe Braner wrote on 11/19/2020 2:06 PM:
On 11/19/2020 1:21 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Moshe Braner wrote on 11/19/2020 9:31 AM:
On 11/19/2020 11:12 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
On 11/18/20 4:41 PM, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
According to Flarm the New Fusion transmits and receives on both A and B Flarm Antennas.

http://www.craggyaero.com/fusion.htm



Richard
www.craggyaero.com


That looks to me like you can buy a license to activate the "B" antenna. **Isn't that like
buying a license to active the passenger side seat belt in a car?* Or the rear brakes?


Maybe if you pay extra they'll sell you the feature where it keeps on working after the
firmware "expires"?* (As long as the data packets are still compatible.)

Dan: We have no choice about seat belts and brakes, which are mandated by law. Do you want to
go there with PowerFlarm? :^(

Dan: Buying a license for an optional feature (also known as "buying an optional feature") is
like buying the "primo" optional interior for your new car, except you can do it anytime,
even years after the purchase, unlike that fancy interior. Would you rather they included
everything that is now optional, and charged you for it, instead letting you pay for only
what you need?


Moshe: They give me the updates FREE anytime I want one. I'm not going to whine about the 10
minutes it takes me to read the update instructions and load it into the glider. The present
system seems like a good compromise: all units are no more than 1 year behind in capability,
at no $ cost, and very little time and effort. As pilots, we are required to "update" our
gliders every year with an inspection, to "update" the pilot every two years with a flight
review, to keep our charts and database current yearly or less, to "update" our parachute
every 180 days - I think we should expect a pilot to also handle updating Flarm!


I have no problem with the updates, I do them, and certainly recommend everybody do them.* My
problem is with it stopping to operate if for whatever reason somebody didn't do the update
yet, even if in fact the data exchanged still allows interoperability.* That is an unnecessary
hit to safety, for everybody around.* And it may have contributed to the recent collision we
were discussing.* There are better ways to nudge people to update the firmware.

I'm not sure it goes inoperative to nudge the pilot; instead, it may be to prevent the need to
"dumb down" the new versions that have to cope with the outdated unit while is within range.
But the larger issue is: What if the pilot ignores or doesn't notice the nudges, how long
should the unit operate with outdated firmware? One month? One year? 5 years?

You are counting on the pilot doing the right thing later instead of on time, and I don't see
any reason he won't continue to postpone the update; after all, "it seems to be working fine -
what's the rush"?


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Thursday, 19 November 2020 at 22:05:04 UTC, Moshe Braner wrote:
On 11/19/2020 1:21 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Moshe Braner wrote on 11/19/2020 9:31 AM:
On 11/19/2020 11:12 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
On 11/18/20 4:41 PM, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
According to Flarm the New Fusion transmits and receives on both A
and B Flarm Antennas.

http://www.craggyaero.com/fusion.htm



Richard
www.craggyaero.com


That looks to me like you can buy a license to activate the "B"
antenna. Isn't that like buying a license to active the passenger
side seat belt in a car? Or the rear brakes?


Maybe if you pay extra they'll sell you the feature where it keeps on
working after the firmware "expires"? (As long as the data packets
are still compatible.)

Dan: We have no choice about seat belts and brakes, which are mandated
by law. Do you want to go there with PowerFlarm? :^(

Dan: Buying a license for an optional feature (also known as "buying an
optional feature") is like buying the "primo" optional interior for your
new car, except you can do it anytime, even years after the purchase,
unlike that fancy interior. Would you rather they included everything
that is now optional, and charged you for it, instead letting you pay
for only what you need?


Moshe: They give me the updates FREE anytime I want one. I'm not going
to whine about the 10 minutes it takes me to read the update
instructions and load it into the glider. The present system seems like
a good compromise: all units are no more than 1 year behind in
capability, at no $ cost, and very little time and effort. As pilots, we
are required to "update" our gliders every year with an inspection, to
"update" the pilot every two years with a flight review, to keep our
charts and database current yearly or less, to "update" our parachute
every 180 days - I think we should expect a pilot to also handle
updating Flarm!

I have no problem with the updates, I do them, and certainly recommend
everybody do them. My problem is with it stopping to operate if for
whatever reason somebody didn't do the update yet, even if in fact the
data exchanged still allows interoperability. That is an unnecessary
hit to safety, for everybody around. And it may have contributed to the
recent collision we were discussing. There are better ways to nudge
people to update the firmware.

What makes you think that it does stop operating if somebody did not do the update? I have never seen that said. What I have seen said is that if everybody updates they guarantee there will be full compatibility - quite different.

On 11/20/2020 9:37 AM, waremark wrote:
On Thursday, 19 November 2020 at 22:05:04 UTC, Moshe Braner wrote:
On 11/19/2020 1:21 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Moshe Braner wrote on 11/19/2020 9:31 AM:
On 11/19/2020 11:12 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
On 11/18/20 4:41 PM, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
According to Flarm the New Fusion transmits and receives on both A
and B Flarm Antennas.

http://www.craggyaero.com/fusion.htm



Richard
www.craggyaero.com


That looks to me like you can buy a license to activate the "B"
antenna. Isn't that like buying a license to active the passenger
side seat belt in a car? Or the rear brakes?


Maybe if you pay extra they'll sell you the feature where it keeps on
working after the firmware "expires"? (As long as the data packets
are still compatible.)

Dan: We have no choice about seat belts and brakes, which are mandated
by law. Do you want to go there with PowerFlarm? :^(

Dan: Buying a license for an optional feature (also known as "buying an
optional feature") is like buying the "primo" optional interior for your
new car, except you can do it anytime, even years after the purchase,
unlike that fancy interior. Would you rather they included everything
that is now optional, and charged you for it, instead letting you pay
for only what you need?


Moshe: They give me the updates FREE anytime I want one. I'm not going
to whine about the 10 minutes it takes me to read the update
instructions and load it into the glider. The present system seems like
a good compromise: all units are no more than 1 year behind in
capability, at no $ cost, and very little time and effort. As pilots, we
are required to "update" our gliders every year with an inspection, to
"update" the pilot every two years with a flight review, to keep our
charts and database current yearly or less, to "update" our parachute
every 180 days - I think we should expect a pilot to also handle
updating Flarm!

I have no problem with the updates, I do them, and certainly recommend
everybody do them. My problem is with it stopping to operate if for
whatever reason somebody didn't do the update yet, even if in fact the
data exchanged still allows interoperability. That is an unnecessary
hit to safety, for everybody around. And it may have contributed to the
recent collision we were discussing. There are better ways to nudge
people to update the firmware.

What makes you think that it does stop operating if somebody did not do the update? I have never seen that said. What I have seen said is that if everybody updates they guarantee there will be full compatibility - quite different.


"The firmware expiration date is not related to the aircraft specific
update cycle/date. The firmware will not expire as long as the firmware
is kept up-to-date according to the AMP. The expiry is always at least
12 months plus a few months of margin in the future when downloaded from
flarm.com."

"If the annual update cycle has expired but the firmware has not yet
expired, the device will in most cases continue to work until firmware
expiry."

"After the expiration date, the system will issue a continuous hard
warning and will not operate."

which seems to be contradicted by:

"If the annual firmware update is not applied, the device may no longer
be interoperable with other FLARM devices without any notification or
warning."

- all quotes from:
https://support.flarm.com/hc/en-us/a...piration-date-

IMO, they can (and probably do) include a software version number in the
data packets, and data packets received that are therefore known to be
in an old and unusable format can be ignored. Since versions overlap in
time, I would guess that data packet format changes that make old
formats unusable rarely happen. If the version of a received packet is
not too old to be used, it should be used, for safety's sake. And
transmission should never be turned off by the software just because it
senses that it's "expired", since it does not know whether future
versions can or cannot use the data it is sending.

On Friday, 20 November 2020 at 16:10:40 UTC, Moshe Braner wrote:

"The firmware expiration date is not related to the aircraft specific
update cycle/date. The firmware will not expire as long as the firmware
is kept up-to-date according to the AMP. The expiry is always at least
12 months plus a few months of margin in the future when downloaded from
flarm.com."

"If the annual update cycle has expired but the firmware has not yet
expired, the device will in most cases continue to work until firmware
expiry."

"After the expiration date, the system will issue a continuous hard
warning and will not operate."

What is meant by firmware expiry date, since this is different from annual update expiry date?

Personally I don't intend to explore how my device behaves when not updated - I have it updated annually during the ARC process, although I did not know it was a requirement until I read that above from Martin Gregorie. I don't normally use the igc files from my device (igc files are uploaded by wifi from my LX9000 to SeeYou Cloud before I get out of the glider, so much more convenient), but I do extract and look at one at the start of the year to check that it is now using the latest firmware.

Incidentally, I did pay for the 2nd aerial option, and having a European device it should transmit as well as receive. I flew with that setup for two seasons before discovering that the 2nd aerial option was not active and the blade aerial on the bottom of the glider was not doing anything. The unit had been provided incorrect and was then sorted out by the UK supplier Navboys. To the best of my knowledge it now works - but I don't actually know whether it does.