New Battery Type?

I have used such a battery since July. Works just fine for me in my ASG 32 Mi with lots of electronic stuff.

/Robert

On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 11:19:57 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I have used such a battery since July. Works just fine for me in my ASG 32 Mi with lots of electronic stuff.

/Robert

So there is already some operational experience with this type of batteries, which is good to hear. The warnings about the initially high voltage of 16+V is well taken. I checked the spec's of the stuff I have on and behind my panel and most of it is limited to only 15V.
That would lead me to more follow-up questions for the experts:
- what would happen if this battery was charged with only 15V?
- if the above is not advisable, would the use of an electronic voltage regulator like this one be an option?
https://vetco.net/products/dc-dc-adj...kaAnEdEALw_wcB
- I am not familiar with this type of electronics but reading the specifications of it, I see a 'Ripple Frequency' of 150kHz on the output. Could that mess up the electronics?

Thanks for any constructive replies.

Uli
'AS'

AS wrote on 11/26/2020 8:59 AM:
On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 11:19:57 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I have used such a battery since July. Works just fine for me in my ASG 32 Mi with lots of electronic stuff.

/Robert

So there is already some operational experience with this type of batteries, which is good to hear. The warnings about the initially high voltage of 16+V is well taken. I checked the spec's of the stuff I have on and behind my panel and most of it is limited to only 15V.
That would lead me to more follow-up questions for the experts:
- what would happen if this battery was charged with only 15V?
- if the above is not advisable, would the use of an electronic voltage regulator like this one be an option?
https://vetco.net/products/dc-dc-adj...kaAnEdEALw_wcB
- I am not familiar with this type of electronics but reading the specifications of it, I see a 'Ripple Frequency' of 150kHz on the output. Could that mess up the electronics?

Thanks for any constructive replies.

The voltage regulator might cause radio and other interference, adds complexity, and one more
item to fail, possibly damaging the devices it was supposed to protect. There seems to be no
sufficient reason to consider this chemistry, compared to LiFe batteries, unless you are space
limited, due to higher cost and risk of over-voltage.

Is battery space insufficient on your glider?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 1:02:00 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
AS wrote on 11/26/2020 8:59 AM:
On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 11:19:57 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I have used such a battery since July. Works just fine for me in my ASG 32 Mi with lots of electronic stuff.

/Robert

So there is already some operational experience with this type of batteries, which is good to hear. The warnings about the initially high voltage of 16+V is well taken. I checked the spec's of the stuff I have on and behind my panel and most of it is limited to only 15V.
That would lead me to more follow-up questions for the experts:
- what would happen if this battery was charged with only 15V?
- if the above is not advisable, would the use of an electronic voltage regulator like this one be an option?
https://vetco.net/products/dc-dc-adj...kaAnEdEALw_wcB
- I am not familiar with this type of electronics but reading the specifications of it, I see a 'Ripple Frequency' of 150kHz on the output. Could that mess up the electronics?

Thanks for any constructive replies.
The voltage regulator might cause radio and other interference, adds complexity, and one more
item to fail, possibly damaging the devices it was supposed to protect. There seems to be no
sufficient reason to consider this chemistry, compared to LiFe batteries, unless you are space
limited, due to higher cost and risk of over-voltage.

Is battery space insufficient on your glider?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Good points, Eric.
I currently have room for and use two 12V LiFe batteries (K2) but I get low voltage warnings on my SN10b fairly early into the flight when keying the radio, a KTR72N. The batteries are only two seasons old. I may have some other, more power hungry equipment, like a Volkslogger functioning only as the GPS source, which may have a higher draw.
My goal is to get rid of the Volkslogger but in parallel, I was thinking about upgrading the batteries. However, that seems to be not as easy as cleaning up my panel.

Uli
'AS'

If you charge it to 15V only you will have a total capacity low enough that it will not worth the money.
You can linearly low the output voltage with 3A/6A diode as it says on Peter millenaar page. There will be power dissipating on he diodes of course, but it's negligible. I do not recommend buck converters because if you don't study the switching frecuency the noise on the radio can be high.

My friend had the same low voltage issue on his lx 9070 and drove him to change the battery type.
If you treat them well you have a battery for 8 seasons.


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
Good points, Eric.
I currently have room for and use two 12V LiFe batteries (K2) but I get low voltage warnings on my SN10b fairly early into the flight when keying the radio, a KTR72N. The batteries are only two seasons old. I may have some other, more power hungry equipment, like a Volkslogger functioning only as the GPS source, which may have a higher draw.
My goal is to get rid of the Volkslogger but in parallel, I was thinking about upgrading the batteries. However, that seems to be not as easy as cleaning up my panel.

Uli
'AS'

On 11/26/2020 4:55 PM, AS wrote:

Good points, Eric.
I currently have room for and use two 12V LiFe batteries (K2) but I get low voltage warnings on my SN10b fairly early into the flight when keying the radio, a KTR72N. The batteries are only two seasons old. I may have some other, more power hungry equipment, like a Volkslogger functioning only as the GPS source, which may have a higher draw.
My goal is to get rid of the Volkslogger but in parallel, I was thinking about upgrading the batteries. However, that seems to be not as easy as cleaning up my panel.

Uli
'AS'


Uli, the SN10b should not complain until the voltage is below 12V. The
LiFePO4 batteries should hold well above that for a long time, if fully
charged to start with (check your charger?). I don't know what else is
in your panel, but with only vario, volkslogger, radio, flarm and SN10
it seems rather unlikely that the pair of K2s are already mostly
discharged "early into the flight". If the low voltage is only while
transmitting, check whether there is too much resistance between the
battery and where theSN10b (reporting the low voltage) and the radio
supply lines diverge. Too much resistance due to thin wires, bad fuse
contact, bad switch, etc. For a test (on the ground) you can run an
extra wire from the battery directly to the radio and see if that
changes the behavior. Remember that electricity flows in closed loops,
i.e., the problem may be in the negative (ground) side of the wiring.

For comparison, I use one 12AH LFP battery, running vario, computer,
flarm and radio, and it would easily last for 2 or even 3 long flights
on one charge. Note: I do not have a transponder, those are relatively
power hungry.

I bought a CTEK LiFePO4 charger. Not cheap, but I'm getting 6 hours off a single K2 running Air Glide vario, PowerFlarm, radio, Trig 22 transponder and Oudie.

AS wrote on 11/26/2020 1:55 PM:
On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 1:02:00 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
AS wrote on 11/26/2020 8:59 AM:
On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 11:19:57 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I have used such a battery since July. Works just fine for me in my ASG 32 Mi with lots of electronic stuff.

/Robert

So there is already some operational experience with this type of batteries, which is good to hear. The warnings about the initially high voltage of 16+V is well taken. I checked the spec's of the stuff I have on and behind my panel and most of it is limited to only 15V.
That would lead me to more follow-up questions for the experts:
- what would happen if this battery was charged with only 15V?
- if the above is not advisable, would the use of an electronic voltage regulator like this one be an option?
https://vetco.net/products/dc-dc-adj...kaAnEdEALw_wcB
- I am not familiar with this type of electronics but reading the specifications of it, I see a 'Ripple Frequency' of 150kHz on the output. Could that mess up the electronics?

Thanks for any constructive replies.
The voltage regulator might cause radio and other interference, adds complexity, and one more
item to fail, possibly damaging the devices it was supposed to protect. There seems to be no
sufficient reason to consider this chemistry, compared to LiFe batteries, unless you are space
limited, due to higher cost and risk of over-voltage.

Is battery space insufficient on your glider?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Good points, Eric.
I currently have room for and use two 12V LiFe batteries (K2) but I get low voltage warnings on my SN10b fairly early into the flight when keying the radio, a KTR72N. The batteries are only two seasons old. I may have some other, more power hungry equipment, like a Volkslogger functioning only as the GPS source, which may have a higher draw.
My goal is to get rid of the Volkslogger but in parallel, I was thinking about upgrading the batteries. However, that seems to be not as easy as cleaning up my panel.

Is the battery voltage dropping when you key the radio? If not, or if it's a small amount, it
may be the wiring to the radio is too small or has connection issues, and it shares the wiring
with the SN!0B. The usual way to avoid this is to wire the SN10B "directly" to the battery and
to a good ground. The positive lead should have a fuse near the battery.


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 11:32:32 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
AS wrote on 11/26/2020 1:55 PM:
On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 1:02:00 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
AS wrote on 11/26/2020 8:59 AM:
On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 11:19:57 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I have used such a battery since July. Works just fine for me in my ASG 32 Mi with lots of electronic stuff.

/Robert

So there is already some operational experience with this type of batteries, which is good to hear. The warnings about the initially high voltage of 16+V is well taken. I checked the spec's of the stuff I have on and behind my panel and most of it is limited to only 15V.
That would lead me to more follow-up questions for the experts:
- what would happen if this battery was charged with only 15V?
- if the above is not advisable, would the use of an electronic voltage regulator like this one be an option?
https://vetco.net/products/dc-dc-adj...kaAnEdEALw_wcB
- I am not familiar with this type of electronics but reading the specifications of it, I see a 'Ripple Frequency' of 150kHz on the output. Could that mess up the electronics?

Thanks for any constructive replies.
The voltage regulator might cause radio and other interference, adds complexity, and one more
item to fail, possibly damaging the devices it was supposed to protect.. There seems to be no
sufficient reason to consider this chemistry, compared to LiFe batteries, unless you are space
limited, due to higher cost and risk of over-voltage.

Is battery space insufficient on your glider?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Good points, Eric.
I currently have room for and use two 12V LiFe batteries (K2) but I get low voltage warnings on my SN10b fairly early into the flight when keying the radio, a KTR72N. The batteries are only two seasons old. I may have some other, more power hungry equipment, like a Volkslogger functioning only as the GPS source, which may have a higher draw.
My goal is to get rid of the Volkslogger but in parallel, I was thinking about upgrading the batteries. However, that seems to be not as easy as cleaning up my panel.
Is the battery voltage dropping when you key the radio? If not, or if it's a small amount, it
may be the wiring to the radio is too small or has connection issues, and it shares the wiring
with the SN!0B. The usual way to avoid this is to wire the SN10B "directly" to the battery and
to a good ground. The positive lead should have a fuse near the battery.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

I guess it is time to rewire the panel. The mechanic of the previous owner left this rats nest of wires and that may be part of the problem.
Thanks for the constructive advise.

Uli
'AS'

On Friday, November 27, 2020 at 12:22:03 AM UTC-5, AS wrote:
On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 11:32:32 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
AS wrote on 11/26/2020 1:55 PM:
On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 1:02:00 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
AS wrote on 11/26/2020 8:59 AM:
On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 11:19:57 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I have used such a battery since July. Works just fine for me in my ASG 32 Mi with lots of electronic stuff.

/Robert

So there is already some operational experience with this type of batteries, which is good to hear. The warnings about the initially high voltage of 16+V is well taken. I checked the spec's of the stuff I have on and behind my panel and most of it is limited to only 15V.
That would lead me to more follow-up questions for the experts:
- what would happen if this battery was charged with only 15V?
- if the above is not advisable, would the use of an electronic voltage regulator like this one be an option?
https://vetco.net/products/dc-dc-adj...kaAnEdEALw_wcB
- I am not familiar with this type of electronics but reading the specifications of it, I see a 'Ripple Frequency' of 150kHz on the output. Could that mess up the electronics?

Thanks for any constructive replies.
The voltage regulator might cause radio and other interference, adds complexity, and one more
item to fail, possibly damaging the devices it was supposed to protect. There seems to be no
sufficient reason to consider this chemistry, compared to LiFe batteries, unless you are space
limited, due to higher cost and risk of over-voltage.

Is battery space insufficient on your glider?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Good points, Eric.
I currently have room for and use two 12V LiFe batteries (K2) but I get low voltage warnings on my SN10b fairly early into the flight when keying the radio, a KTR72N. The batteries are only two seasons old. I may have some other, more power hungry equipment, like a Volkslogger functioning only as the GPS source, which may have a higher draw.
My goal is to get rid of the Volkslogger but in parallel, I was thinking about upgrading the batteries. However, that seems to be not as easy as cleaning up my panel.
Is the battery voltage dropping when you key the radio? If not, or if it's a small amount, it
may be the wiring to the radio is too small or has connection issues, and it shares the wiring
with the SN!0B. The usual way to avoid this is to wire the SN10B "directly" to the battery and
to a good ground. The positive lead should have a fuse near the battery..
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
I guess it is time to rewire the panel. The mechanic of the previous owner left this rats nest of wires and that may be part of the problem.
Thanks for the constructive advise.

Uli
'AS'
As to "rewire the rat's nest": I have never purchased a "new" glider, only a "used" one. In every case, there have been tubing and wiring issues and in each case I undertook to re-wire and re-tube everything I could get at. In every case, I have discovered something that was at least puzzling if not down-right scary. You don't have to be a wizard to discover problems and correct them. Just take it one thing at a time, get everything neat, and you will have a lot more fun come spring than if you don't.