First glider Nimbus 2 ?

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 23:34:48 -0800 (PST), Surge
wrote:

Have you actually flown a Nimbus 2? I suggest you organise a test flight before making the purchase. Maybe you can organise a dual in something with an all flying elevator like a Janus first.

I would never lend my Numbus 2 to a pilot with so few hours. Never.

Å›roda, 6 stycznia 2021 oÂ*08:39:02 UTC+1 Andreas Maurer napisaÅ‚(a):
On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 23:34:48 -0800 (PST), Surge
wrote:
Have you actually flown a Nimbus 2? I suggest you organise a test flight before making the purchase. Maybe you can organise a dual in something with an all flying elevator like a Janus first.
I would never lend my Numbus 2 to a pilot with so few hours. Never.

ok, so I understand that you consider a flight in Nimbus executed by a 70 hours pilot would be very dangerous to a both glider and pilot. But what exactly are the factors of that danger? is it just "no, because no" type of argumentation or do you mean any particular elements of flying technique / tactics which are neccessary to execute a short, safe flight in good conditions within a gliding range of the airfield, and which a-70-hour pilot cannot possibly have?

Dne stÅ™eda 6. ledna 2021Â*vÂ*22:38:36 UTC+1 uživatel napsal:
środa, 6 stycznia 2021 o 08:39:02 UTC+1 Andreas Maurer napisał(a):
On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 23:34:48 -0800 (PST), Surge
wrote:
Have you actually flown a Nimbus 2? I suggest you organise a test flight before making the purchase. Maybe you can organise a dual in something with an all flying elevator like a Janus first.
I would never lend my Numbus 2 to a pilot with so few hours. Never.
ok, so I understand that you consider a flight in Nimbus executed by a 70 hours pilot would be very dangerous to a both glider and pilot. But what exactly are the factors of that danger? is it just "no, because no" type of argumentation or do you mean any particular elements of flying technique / tactics which are neccessary to execute a short, safe flight in good conditions within a gliding range of the airfield, and which a-70-hour pilot cannot possibly have?

Hi,
Im in similar position as you (150H PIC in GLD and TMG) and Im starting scanning market for first glider too. Im not flying Nimbus2 so Im not able to camment in flight characteristics, but Nimbus 2b was bought by another club-member (after about 2- 3years flying XC in low performance gliders) so there are some notes only from ground. Long wings are quite low so you have to watch it, which is challenging when flying in cross-winds and ground runs at takeoff and landings are looong, because this thing is simply heavy. Some folks above sad it can be landed short but you have to be on exactly right speed, OK for airport with stable or no wind and free space before touchdown zone, in not known place and some croswind I woud like to keep some more speed probably, ant then ground run can be quite long. So this combination is for safe outlanding for me big NO, and from my experince in air (sinks can be prety strong) when Im not sure than I can land plane in field I don't leave airport from my sight, so there is no need to have big L/D because you can fly in same are with L13. About flaps I dont right to say nothing because I dont fly plane with them, but I fly TMG and I know that every one lever or button you have to push, need your attention especially when you are learning new plane. And when things are not optimal there is not a small chance you forget something. This is up to you if you thing that in glider that you flying you are enough relaxed so you are able to keep up with more workload.

czwartek, 7 stycznia 2021 oÂ*00:19:50 UTC+1 napisaÅ‚(a):
Dne středa 6. ledna 2021 v 22:38:36 UTC+1 uživatel napsal:
środa, 6 stycznia 2021 o 08:39:02 UTC+1 Andreas Maurer napisał(a):
On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 23:34:48 -0800 (PST), Surge
wrote:
Have you actually flown a Nimbus 2? I suggest you organise a test flight before making the purchase. Maybe you can organise a dual in something with an all flying elevator like a Janus first.
I would never lend my Numbus 2 to a pilot with so few hours. Never.
ok, so I understand that you consider a flight in Nimbus executed by a 70 hours pilot would be very dangerous to a both glider and pilot. But what exactly are the factors of that danger? is it just "no, because no" type of argumentation or do you mean any particular elements of flying technique / tactics which are neccessary to execute a short, safe flight in good conditions within a gliding range of the airfield, and which a-70-hour pilot cannot possibly have?
Hi,
Im in similar position as you (150H PIC in GLD and TMG) and Im starting scanning market for first glider too. Im not flying Nimbus2 so Im not able to camment in flight characteristics, but Nimbus 2b was bought by another club-member (after about 2- 3years flying XC in low performance gliders) so there are some notes only from ground. Long wings are quite low so you have to watch it, which is challenging when flying in cross-winds and ground runs at takeoff and landings are looong, because this thing is simply heavy. Some folks above sad it can be landed short but you have to be on exactly right speed, OK for airport with stable or no wind and free space before touchdown zone, in not known place and some croswind I woud like to keep some more speed probably, ant then ground run can be quite long. So this combination is for safe outlanding for me big NO, and from my experince in air (sinks can be prety strong) when Im not sure than I can land plane in field I don't leave airport from my sight, so there is no need to have big L/D because you can fly in same are with L13. About flaps I dont right to say nothing because I dont fly plane with them, but I fly TMG and I know that every one lever or button you have to push, need your attention especially when you are learning new plane. And when things are not optimal there is not a small chance you forget something. This is up to you if you thing that in glider that you flying you are enough relaxed so you are able to keep up with more workload.

Thank you very much for a comment, I am glad to get some input from someone who is facing a similar type of dilemma
Your remarks seem to confirm most of the warnings that I get. For some reason, though, I believe that paradoxicaly, flying a glider which sort of "outsizes" my skills may increase rather than decrease the safety. Why? I experienced a similar thing when I began to ride a motorbike. I bought one which was too strong, too fast, too dangerous for me in opinions of many people.. Knowing that, I drove it very very carefully for the first two years, and here I am, still riding it and enjoying a lot. If you get something which is said to be easy to fly, then you start off with a mindset of flying an easy glider. Are there really "easy" gliders? the ones in which you can make a 55% bank turn before a final at 60km/h speed at 30m AGL?
I am no expert but I guess even the "safest" glider would kill you. Of course you would say that no experienced pilot would ever do it, but interestingly, even exeperience is not a guarantee of safety. Recently I came across a study of glider accidents conducted by French "Bureau d'Enquêtes et d'Analyses (BEA) pour la Sécurité de l'Aviation civile" concerning gliding accidents in France 1999-2001. It shows that in 114 accidents 16 were caused by pilots with less than 100 hours experience, and 98 by those with more than 100 h experience. Those caused by less then 100h pilots resulted in 1 death, thouse by more than 100h resulted in 19 deaths.
I guess after all it is JUDGMENT which is crucial, not glider type, experience etc. And maybe a bit of luck? ...

best regards
Piotr

Piotr Mis wrote on 1/9/2021 3:19 PM:
Recently I came across a study of glider accidents conducted by French "Bureau d'Enquêtes et d'Analyses (BEA) pour la Sécurité de l'Aviation civile" concerning gliding accidents in France 1999-2001. It shows that in 114 accidents 16 were caused by pilots with less than 100 hours experience, and 98 by those with more than 100 h experience. Those caused by less then 100h pilots resulted in 1 death, thouse by more than 100h resulted in 19 deaths.
I guess after all it is JUDGMENT which is crucial, not glider type, experience etc. And maybe a bit of luck? ...

Do not take any comfort in those numbers. The _exposure_ to risk is much higher in pilots with
over 100 hours, compared to those with less than 100 hours. It does not make sense to compare
the number of accidents at less than 100 hours, to those that might have 1000 hours, or 5000
hours. It also does not take note of the number of pilots flying with over 100 hours, which is
likely many more than those with less than 100 hours.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Ultimately, it's still your own decision what you buy, and depending on your skill, your club or CFI might allow it.
At our club, we have some pretty high demands. In order to fly solo on our Duo Discus, you need 75 hours solo, LS4 is 40 hours. If you were to buy something like Std Cirrus, Libelle or LS4, you need to have flown over 40 hours and at least 5 flights with the clubs LS4's. If you were to buy a flapped glider like Mosquito, PIK20, Mini Nimbus, you need to be solo on our Duo Discus (so 75 hours solo flight total) and flown at least 5 flights with a flapped glider in double with an instructor. Since we don't have a flapped glider owned by the club, there is a private Arcus owned by an instructor who you can pay to train.

At the clubs I have flown so far, the club or CFI have no say about what private glider a club member buys or flies. There is some counselling, though..

Le lundi 11 janvier 2021 Ã* 10:31:05 UTC+1, a écritÂ*:
Ultimately, it's still your own decision what you buy, and depending on your skill, your club or CFI might allow it.
At our club, we have some pretty high demands. In order to fly solo on our Duo Discus, you need 75 hours solo, LS4 is 40 hours. If you were to buy something like Std Cirrus, Libelle or LS4, you need to have flown over 40 hours and at least 5 flights with the clubs LS4's. If you were to buy a flapped glider like Mosquito, PIK20, Mini Nimbus, you need to be solo on our Duo Discus (so 75 hours solo flight total) and flown at least 5 flights with a flapped glider in double with an instructor. Since we don't have a flapped glider owned by the club, there is a private Arcus owned by an instructor who you can pay to train.

On 1/11/21 2:31 AM, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
Ultimately, it's still your own decision what you buy, and depending on your skill, your club or CFI might allow it.
At our club, we have some pretty high demands. In order to fly solo on our Duo Discus, you need 75 hours solo, LS4 is 40 hours. If you were to buy something like Std Cirrus, Libelle or LS4, you need to have flown over 40 hours and at least 5 flights with the clubs LS4's. If you were to buy a flapped glider like Mosquito, PIK20, Mini Nimbus, you need to be solo on our Duo Discus (so 75 hours solo flight total) and flown at least 5 flights with a flapped glider in double with an instructor. Since we don't have a flapped glider owned by the club, there is a private Arcus owned by an instructor who you can pay to train.


Or you could just buy a self-launcher and tell the club, "Thanks, but no
thanks."

--
Dan
5J

poniedziaÅ‚ek, 11 stycznia 2021 oÂ*10:31:05 UTC+1 napisaÅ‚(a):
Ultimately, it's still your own decision what you buy, and depending on your skill, your club or CFI might allow it.
At our club, we have some pretty high demands. In order to fly solo on our Duo Discus, you need 75 hours solo, LS4 is 40 hours. If you were to buy something like Std Cirrus, Libelle or LS4, you need to have flown over 40 hours and at least 5 flights with the clubs LS4's. If you were to buy a flapped glider like Mosquito, PIK20, Mini Nimbus, you need to be solo on our Duo Discus (so 75 hours solo flight total) and flown at least 5 flights with a flapped glider in double with an instructor. Since we don't have a flapped glider owned by the club, there is a private Arcus owned by an instructor who you can pay to train.

Hi
thanks for making an interesting point. I had already tried to figure this out and I spoke with the head of the gliding section of our flying club to make sure I won't get in trouble (I had mentioned to him I was going to buy my own glider but at that time wasn't planning to get Nimbus). He told me that as long as glider would be formally proven to be airworty, would have all valid papers etc, the choice of is solely up to the owner and no restrictions are imposed by the club. He told me that Nimbus may not be the best choice, but neither did he tell me that I was completely crazy....

Purchase is not yet made because COVID restrictions keep me in my country. I am also considering 15m gliders but for the budget I have, I don't see anything worth attention at the moment. No matter what the outcome of all that will be, getting all those comments/advice from more experienced pilots is a great value in itself....

On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 13:38:34 -0800 (PST), Piotr Mis
wrote:

?roda, 6 stycznia 2021 o*08:39:02 UTC+1 Andreas Maurer napisa?(a):
On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 23:34:48 -0800 (PST), Surge
wrote:
Have you actually flown a Nimbus 2? I suggest you organise a test flight before making the purchase. Maybe you can organise a dual in something with an all flying elevator like a Janus first.
I would never lend my Numbus 2 to a pilot with so few hours. Never.

ok, so I understand that you consider a flight in Nimbus executed by a 70 hours pilot would be very dangerous to a both glider and pilot. But what exactly are the factors of that danger? is it just "no, because no" type of argumentation or do you mean any particular elements of flying technique / tactics which are neccessary to execute a short, safe flight in good conditions within a gliding range of the airfield, and which a-70-hour pilot cannot possibly have?

Well, under normal circmstances a Nimbus 2 is as harmless as any
ASK-21 (I only have some experience in the Numbus 2C).

But, given your limited experience with gliders that are very, very
easy to fly: You are, sorry to say that, not yet qualified to fly a
Nimbus 2.

Given a careful briefing and some additional training in something
similar (Janus, et cetera) you'll probably be able to fly it safely,
but I would never take the risk to lend ***my*** complex glider to
someone with your credentials showing up one afternoon.


One more advice:
Do not over-estimate the performance of an open class glider. I've
been flying one for ages (some kind of ASH-25, with much, much better
performance than a Nimbus 2), and the performance advantage over old
15m class (ASW-20, LS-3) is about 20 percent.

The Nimbus is much too light - to make it perform, you must fly it
with lots of water ballast. Always.
Without water ballast, the old 15m class is going to outperform a
Nimbus in anything but very slow straight flight or extremely weak
thermals - these situations make perhaps 5 percent of all flying.

Combine that with the fear of landing out (safe landing, disassembly
of a heavy, complex glider, big trailer) - and think twice about
buying something a lot easier to handle. Something you simply pull out
of the trailer, put the wings on and fly after 15 minutes.


Cheers
Andreas