First glider Nimbus 2 ?

czwartek, 7 stycznia 2021 oÂ*00:19:50 UTC+1 napisaÅ‚(a):
Dne středa 6. ledna 2021 v 22:38:36 UTC+1 uživatel napsal:
środa, 6 stycznia 2021 o 08:39:02 UTC+1 Andreas Maurer napisał(a):
On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 23:34:48 -0800 (PST), Surge
wrote:
Have you actually flown a Nimbus 2? I suggest you organise a test flight before making the purchase. Maybe you can organise a dual in something with an all flying elevator like a Janus first.
I would never lend my Numbus 2 to a pilot with so few hours. Never.
ok, so I understand that you consider a flight in Nimbus executed by a 70 hours pilot would be very dangerous to a both glider and pilot. But what exactly are the factors of that danger? is it just "no, because no" type of argumentation or do you mean any particular elements of flying technique / tactics which are neccessary to execute a short, safe flight in good conditions within a gliding range of the airfield, and which a-70-hour pilot cannot possibly have?
Hi,
Im in similar position as you (150H PIC in GLD and TMG) and Im starting scanning market for first glider too. Im not flying Nimbus2 so Im not able to camment in flight characteristics, but Nimbus 2b was bought by another club-member (after about 2- 3years flying XC in low performance gliders) so there are some notes only from ground. Long wings are quite low so you have to watch it, which is challenging when flying in cross-winds and ground runs at takeoff and landings are looong, because this thing is simply heavy. Some folks above sad it can be landed short but you have to be on exactly right speed, OK for airport with stable or no wind and free space before touchdown zone, in not known place and some croswind I woud like to keep some more speed probably, ant then ground run can be quite long. So this combination is for safe outlanding for me big NO, and from my experince in air (sinks can be prety strong) when Im not sure than I can land plane in field I don't leave airport from my sight, so there is no need to have big L/D because you can fly in same are with L13. About flaps I dont right to say nothing because I dont fly plane with them, but I fly TMG and I know that every one lever or button you have to push, need your attention especially when you are learning new plane. And when things are not optimal there is not a small chance you forget something. This is up to you if you thing that in glider that you flying you are enough relaxed so you are able to keep up with more workload.

Thank you very much for a comment, I am glad to get some input from someone who is facing a similar type of dilemma
Your remarks seem to confirm most of the warnings that I get. For some reason, though, I believe that paradoxicaly, flying a glider which sort of "outsizes" my skills may increase rather than decrease the safety. Why? I experienced a similar thing when I began to ride a motorbike. I bought one which was too strong, too fast, too dangerous for me in opinions of many people.. Knowing that, I drove it very very carefully for the first two years, and here I am, still riding it and enjoying a lot. If you get something which is said to be easy to fly, then you start off with a mindset of flying an easy glider. Are there really "easy" gliders? the ones in which you can make a 55% bank turn before a final at 60km/h speed at 30m AGL?
I am no expert but I guess even the "safest" glider would kill you. Of course you would say that no experienced pilot would ever do it, but interestingly, even exeperience is not a guarantee of safety. Recently I came across a study of glider accidents conducted by French "Bureau d'Enquêtes et d'Analyses (BEA) pour la Sécurité de l'Aviation civile" concerning gliding accidents in France 1999-2001. It shows that in 114 accidents 16 were caused by pilots with less than 100 hours experience, and 98 by those with more than 100 h experience. Those caused by less then 100h pilots resulted in 1 death, thouse by more than 100h resulted in 19 deaths.
I guess after all it is JUDGMENT which is crucial, not glider type, experience etc. And maybe a bit of luck? ...

best regards
Piotr

Piotr Mis wrote on 1/9/2021 3:19 PM:
Recently I came across a study of glider accidents conducted by French "Bureau d'Enquêtes et d'Analyses (BEA) pour la Sécurité de l'Aviation civile" concerning gliding accidents in France 1999-2001. It shows that in 114 accidents 16 were caused by pilots with less than 100 hours experience, and 98 by those with more than 100 h experience. Those caused by less then 100h pilots resulted in 1 death, thouse by more than 100h resulted in 19 deaths.
I guess after all it is JUDGMENT which is crucial, not glider type, experience etc. And maybe a bit of luck? ...

Do not take any comfort in those numbers. The _exposure_ to risk is much higher in pilots with
over 100 hours, compared to those with less than 100 hours. It does not make sense to compare
the number of accidents at less than 100 hours, to those that might have 1000 hours, or 5000
hours. It also does not take note of the number of pilots flying with over 100 hours, which is
likely many more than those with less than 100 hours.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Ultimately, it's still your own decision what you buy, and depending on your skill, your club or CFI might allow it.
At our club, we have some pretty high demands. In order to fly solo on our Duo Discus, you need 75 hours solo, LS4 is 40 hours. If you were to buy something like Std Cirrus, Libelle or LS4, you need to have flown over 40 hours and at least 5 flights with the clubs LS4's. If you were to buy a flapped glider like Mosquito, PIK20, Mini Nimbus, you need to be solo on our Duo Discus (so 75 hours solo flight total) and flown at least 5 flights with a flapped glider in double with an instructor. Since we don't have a flapped glider owned by the club, there is a private Arcus owned by an instructor who you can pay to train.

At the clubs I have flown so far, the club or CFI have no say about what private glider a club member buys or flies. There is some counselling, though..

Le lundi 11 janvier 2021 Ã* 10:31:05 UTC+1, a écritÂ*:
Ultimately, it's still your own decision what you buy, and depending on your skill, your club or CFI might allow it.
At our club, we have some pretty high demands. In order to fly solo on our Duo Discus, you need 75 hours solo, LS4 is 40 hours. If you were to buy something like Std Cirrus, Libelle or LS4, you need to have flown over 40 hours and at least 5 flights with the clubs LS4's. If you were to buy a flapped glider like Mosquito, PIK20, Mini Nimbus, you need to be solo on our Duo Discus (so 75 hours solo flight total) and flown at least 5 flights with a flapped glider in double with an instructor. Since we don't have a flapped glider owned by the club, there is a private Arcus owned by an instructor who you can pay to train.

On 1/11/21 2:31 AM, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
Ultimately, it's still your own decision what you buy, and depending on your skill, your club or CFI might allow it.
At our club, we have some pretty high demands. In order to fly solo on our Duo Discus, you need 75 hours solo, LS4 is 40 hours. If you were to buy something like Std Cirrus, Libelle or LS4, you need to have flown over 40 hours and at least 5 flights with the clubs LS4's. If you were to buy a flapped glider like Mosquito, PIK20, Mini Nimbus, you need to be solo on our Duo Discus (so 75 hours solo flight total) and flown at least 5 flights with a flapped glider in double with an instructor. Since we don't have a flapped glider owned by the club, there is a private Arcus owned by an instructor who you can pay to train.


Or you could just buy a self-launcher and tell the club, "Thanks, but no
thanks."

--
Dan
5J

40 hours before flying an LS-4?!

It has to be the easiest flying glider I've ever been in. I've heard that some European clubs put students in it for their first single seater.

On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 10:42:56 -0800, George Haeh wrote:

40 hours before flying an LS-4?!

It has to be the easiest flying glider I've ever been in. I've heard
that some European clubs put students in it for their first single
seater.

Club rules etc....do differ between countries

My post-solo experience is, I think, fairly typical for anybody learning
to fly in one of the bigger UK clubs.

I was sent solo on an ASK-21 at 16 hours (80 launches - almost all
winched - I got my spin sign-off off winch launches followed by thermal
climbs in an ASK-21 WITHOUT tail weights - with an instructor who taught
me to spin it in normal W&B. After soloing in the ASK-21 I converted to
the SZD Junior at a bit over 17 hours and 10 more launches, which I flew
for another 33 hours and 100 launches - quite a lot of those being 6 min
sled rides during two liftless British winters. I got my Silver C flying
the Junior in my second solo summer.

I'd gotten an aero-tow sign-off that summer (7 of those launches) and
flew another 9 aero tows at Boulder and Williams before converting to a
nice Pegase 101 at Williams.

Back at the UK ranch again, I started to fly the club's high-performance
fleet - Discus B and Pegase 90, together with a variety of gliders at
other sites, which included UK hill sites, Paraparaumu and Omarama in NZ
and Die Wasserkuppe, adding another 100 launches and 170 hours, mainly in
the Pegase, before I bought my own glider.

In reading the above, bear in mind that my club has a pair of Juniors
flown by immediate post-solo pilots in summer and by anybody who wants to
stay current in winter as well as three decent Standard-class gliders.
There's also a tradition of organising expeditions to hill sites in early
October when thermals have quit for the year. Both of these factors tend
to lengthen the time most pilots spend in club gliders before thinking
about buying one.


--
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

poniedziaÅ‚ek, 11 stycznia 2021 oÂ*21:21:38 UTC+1 Martin Gregorie napisaÅ‚(a):
On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 10:42:56 -0800, George Haeh wrote:

40 hours before flying an LS-4?!

It has to be the easiest flying glider I've ever been in. I've heard
that some European clubs put students in it for their first single
seater.
Club rules etc....do differ between countries

My post-solo experience is, I think, fairly typical for anybody learning
to fly in one of the bigger UK clubs.

I was sent solo on an ASK-21 at 16 hours (80 launches - almost all
winched - I got my spin sign-off off winch launches followed by thermal
climbs in an ASK-21 WITHOUT tail weights - with an instructor who taught
me to spin it in normal W&B. After soloing in the ASK-21 I converted to
the SZD Junior at a bit over 17 hours and 10 more launches, which I flew
for another 33 hours and 100 launches - quite a lot of those being 6 min
sled rides during two liftless British winters. I got my Silver C flying
the Junior in my second solo summer.

I'd gotten an aero-tow sign-off that summer (7 of those launches) and
flew another 9 aero tows at Boulder and Williams before converting to a
nice Pegase 101 at Williams.

Back at the UK ranch again, I started to fly the club's high-performance
fleet - Discus B and Pegase 90, together with a variety of gliders at
other sites, which included UK hill sites, Paraparaumu and Omarama in NZ
and Die Wasserkuppe, adding another 100 launches and 170 hours, mainly in
the Pegase, before I bought my own glider.

In reading the above, bear in mind that my club has a pair of Juniors
flown by immediate post-solo pilots in summer and by anybody who wants to
stay current in winter as well as three decent Standard-class gliders.
There's also a tradition of organising expeditions to hill sites in early
October when thermals have quit for the year. Both of these factors tend
to lengthen the time most pilots spend in club gliders before thinking
about buying one.
--
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Yes, I see your point, but the reality of clubs in my country (Poland) probably differ quite much. To be honest I am sick and tired of queueing for a club glider, being at the mercy of whimsical instructors and wasting time when I am not lucky enough to "deserve" a glider. I am by no means an experienced pilot, but with near 600 take-offs/landings in powered planes/ultralights/gliders I guess I am not completely ignorant?...

Op maandag 11 januari 2021 om 19:42:58 UTC+1 schreef :
40 hours before flying an LS-4?!

It has to be the easiest flying glider I've ever been in. I've heard that some European clubs put students in it for their first single seater.
These are just our club rules, as I said, they have pretty high standards
You are free to leave the club and go somewhere else where they don't have these rules though.

Yes you can buy whatever you like, but if the CFI or other instructors think it is unsafe for a low experience pilot to suddenly fly a flapped glider or open class, you are not allowed to take off.
If you do this on weekdays, you can get banned.

We train new students on 2 ASK13, then after they have 10 solo flights, transition to our 3 ASK8's. When you have 20 hours of solo experience, you can fly the SZD Junior. At 30 hours you can fly our 2 Grob Twin Astirs. At 40 hours and having passed your exams and got your licence, you can fly our 2 LS4's and Pegase. Then after 75 solo hours is our Duo Discus. They are however rebuilding these rules since many clubs around us fly glass as trainer and solo like the G103 Twin Astir and G102 Astir.

Most of our income is from ASK8's though, low cost, all repairs can be done by club members and they fly every day. At a price of 0.08 EUR per minute, it's hard to resist an hour in an ASK8 on a weak day

Anyway, back on topic. If you are allowed to fly a Nimbus as a low hour pilot, consider yourself lucky. Some clubs, like mine, have very weird rules when it comes to private gliders, as we already have so many private pilots. The reason I bought mine is because I don't want to fly an hour only to be called back down because 4 other members want to fly that glider. I wanted to do my own thing and fly as far and long as I wanted. Some wonder why I even bought it in the first place, as I fly my DG 101 less than 30 hours a year. It's just my way of flying and enjoying my hobby. Make sure you like what you're going to do and enjoy it. Everyone enjoys the hobby in a different way.

On Monday, 11 January 2021 at 17:23:51 UTC, Dan Marotta wrote:
On 1/11/21 2:31 AM, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
Ultimately, it's still your own decision what you buy, and depending on your skill, your club or CFI might allow it.
At our club, we have some pretty high demands. In order to fly solo on our Duo Discus, you need 75 hours solo, LS4 is 40 hours. If you were to buy something like Std Cirrus, Libelle or LS4, you need to have flown over 40 hours and at least 5 flights with the clubs LS4's. If you were to buy a flapped glider like Mosquito, PIK20, Mini Nimbus, you need to be solo on our Duo Discus (so 75 hours solo flight total) and flown at least 5 flights with a flapped glider in double with an instructor. Since we don't have a flapped glider owned by the club, there is a private Arcus owned by an instructor who you can pay to train.

Or you could just buy a self-launcher and tell the club, "Thanks, but no
thanks."

--
Dan
5J
At my UK club you need the consent of the Chief Flying Instructor to bring a private glider onto the site and to operate it from there.