First glider Nimbus 2 ?

poniedziaÅ‚ek, 11 stycznia 2021 oÂ*10:31:05 UTC+1 napisaÅ‚(a):
Ultimately, it's still your own decision what you buy, and depending on your skill, your club or CFI might allow it.
At our club, we have some pretty high demands. In order to fly solo on our Duo Discus, you need 75 hours solo, LS4 is 40 hours. If you were to buy something like Std Cirrus, Libelle or LS4, you need to have flown over 40 hours and at least 5 flights with the clubs LS4's. If you were to buy a flapped glider like Mosquito, PIK20, Mini Nimbus, you need to be solo on our Duo Discus (so 75 hours solo flight total) and flown at least 5 flights with a flapped glider in double with an instructor. Since we don't have a flapped glider owned by the club, there is a private Arcus owned by an instructor who you can pay to train.

Hi
thanks for making an interesting point. I had already tried to figure this out and I spoke with the head of the gliding section of our flying club to make sure I won't get in trouble (I had mentioned to him I was going to buy my own glider but at that time wasn't planning to get Nimbus). He told me that as long as glider would be formally proven to be airworty, would have all valid papers etc, the choice of is solely up to the owner and no restrictions are imposed by the club. He told me that Nimbus may not be the best choice, but neither did he tell me that I was completely crazy....

Purchase is not yet made because COVID restrictions keep me in my country. I am also considering 15m gliders but for the budget I have, I don't see anything worth attention at the moment. No matter what the outcome of all that will be, getting all those comments/advice from more experienced pilots is a great value in itself....

On Monday, January 11, 2021 at 2:53:20 PM UTC-7, wrote:
poniedziałek, 11 stycznia 2021 o 10:31:05 UTC+1 napisał(a):
Ultimately, it's still your own decision what you buy, and depending on your skill, your club or CFI might allow it.
At our club, we have some pretty high demands. In order to fly solo on our Duo Discus, you need 75 hours solo, LS4 is 40 hours. If you were to buy something like Std Cirrus, Libelle or LS4, you need to have flown over 40 hours and at least 5 flights with the clubs LS4's. If you were to buy a flapped glider like Mosquito, PIK20, Mini Nimbus, you need to be solo on our Duo Discus (so 75 hours solo flight total) and flown at least 5 flights with a flapped glider in double with an instructor. Since we don't have a flapped glider owned by the club, there is a private Arcus owned by an instructor who you can pay to train.
Hi
thanks for making an interesting point. I had already tried to figure this out and I spoke with the head of the gliding section of our flying club to make sure I won't get in trouble (I had mentioned to him I was going to buy my own glider but at that time wasn't planning to get Nimbus). He told me that as long as glider would be formally proven to be airworty, would have all valid papers etc, the choice of is solely up to the owner and no restrictions are imposed by the club. He told me that Nimbus may not be the best choice, but neither did he tell me that I was completely crazy....

Purchase is not yet made because COVID restrictions keep me in my country.. I am also considering 15m gliders but for the budget I have, I don't see anything worth attention at the moment. No matter what the outcome of all that will be, getting all those comments/advice from more experienced pilots is a great value in itself....


I may be WAY off-base here, but one thing you may consider, is to get Condor 2 and play around with some of the gliders, particularly the longer wing-span ones like the JS1 and EB29, so you can see how long-winged gliders handle on the ground. I know these are nothing like the Nimbus 2, and in fact, I think the only one that remotely comes close would be the Standard Cirrus with its all-flying tail. Just something to consider. But again, I may be way off here.

John Foster wrote:

I may be WAY off-base here, but one thing you may consider, is to get Condor 2 and play around with some of the gliders, particularly the longer wing-span ones like the JS1 and EB29, so you can see how long-winged gliders handle on the ground. I know these are nothing like the Nimbus 2, and in fact, I think the only one that remotely comes close would be the Standard Cirrus with its all-flying tail. Just something to consider. But again, I may be way off here.



Regarding advice given on buying a Nimbus 2 as a first glider: It's
been over 40 years, but I seem to recall a series of partial
differential equations which describe the flight characteristics of an
aircraft.

I wonder, do the developers of Condor have access to these equations for
each aircraft that they model and, if so, how did they get them? Or are
they simply making a guess as to how a particular glider actually performs?

--
Dan
5J

On Monday, January 11, 2021 at 2:53:20 PM UTC-7, wrote:
poniedziałek, 11 stycznia 2021 o 10:31:05 UTC+1 napisał(a):
Ultimately, it's still your own decision what you buy, and depending on your skill, your club or CFI might allow it.
At our club, we have some pretty high demands. In order to fly solo on our Duo Discus, you need 75 hours solo, LS4 is 40 hours. If you were to buy something like Std Cirrus, Libelle or LS4, you need to have flown over 40 hours and at least 5 flights with the clubs LS4's. If you were to buy a flapped glider like Mosquito, PIK20, Mini Nimbus, you need to be solo on our Duo Discus (so 75 hours solo flight total) and flown at least 5 flights with a flapped glider in double with an instructor. Since we don't have a flapped glider owned by the club, there is a private Arcus owned by an instructor who you can pay to train.
Hi
thanks for making an interesting point. I had already tried to figure this out and I spoke with the head of the gliding section of our flying club to make sure I won't get in trouble (I had mentioned to him I was going to buy my own glider but at that time wasn't planning to get Nimbus). He told me that as long as glider would be formally proven to be airworty, would have all valid papers etc, the choice of is solely up to the owner and no restrictions are imposed by the club. He told me that Nimbus may not be the best choice, but neither did he tell me that I was completely crazy....

Purchase is not yet made because COVID restrictions keep me in my country.. I am also considering 15m gliders but for the budget I have, I don't see anything worth attention at the moment. No matter what the outcome of all that will be, getting all those comments/advice from more experienced pilots is a great value in itself....
I was under the impression that Poland was full of Jantars. at least at one time. I had a share of a Jantar Std 2 and it had pretty honest performance and was very comfortable though the reach to the panel was a stretch. It seems to fit long pilots and has a tall undercarriage which is good for out landings. Certainly capable of XC flying and usually good performance for the price.

Frank Whiteley

On Monday, January 11, 2021 at 1:53:20 PM UTC-8, wrote:
poniedziałek, 11 stycznia 2021 o 10:31:05 UTC+1 napisał(a):
Ultimately, it's still your own decision what you buy, and depending on your skill, your club or CFI might allow it.
I can share an experience in my club that points to the need to control private pilots with low time flying aircraft they are not ready for. This person bought a ASW 20 right after their solo endorsement and nearly killed himself on the flight while we watched in horror. He did a very low energy skidding turn to final and entered a spin about one wingspan from the ground. The plane impacted the ground going sideways. Had he been higher, it would have likely be a fatal accident. He was banned from the club and never got another tow from us. Who a club tows is in their control.

Another issue is the risk you are imposing on the tow pilot. Most of these older ships have CG hooks that provide little help in directional control. Kiting is also a killer. My club lost a towpilot this last year due to kiting.

BG

On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 21:34:49 -0800, BG wrote:

I can share an experience in my club that points to the need to control
private pilots with low time flying aircraft they are not ready for.
This person bought a ASW 20 right after their solo endorsement and
nearly killed himself on the flight while we watched in horror. He did
a very low energy skidding turn to final and entered a spin about one
wingspan from the ground. The plane impacted the ground going sideways.
Had he been higher, it would have likely be a fatal accident. He was
banned from the club and never got another tow from us. Who a club tows
is in their control.

Does your club own any benign single seat gliders, e.g. a 1-26, Ka-8 or
Junior that new solo pilots can transition to?

If not, what guidance or rules does your club have to protect early solo
pilots (and tuggies) from the sort of incident you describe? If nobody
pointed out why buying an ASW-20 was a really bad idea for a new solo,
then banning him sounds rather harsh.


--
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

BG wrote on 1/11/2021 9:34 PM:
Another issue is the risk you are imposing on the tow pilot. Most of these older ships have CG hooks that provide little help in directional control. Kiting is also a killer. My club lost a towpilot this last year due to kiting.

My ASW20C came with only a CG hook. After several years, I retrofitted it with a nose hook. The
improvement on takeoff was significant, and it was also better in the air. A very worthwhile
change, I thought, and I had about a 1000 hours at the time.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On 1/12/21 12:02 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
BG wrote on 1/11/2021 9:34 PM:
Another issue is the risk you are imposing on the tow pilot.Â* Most of
these older ships have CG hooks that provide little help in
directional control.Â*Â* Kiting is also a killer.Â* My club lost a
towpilot this last year due to kiting.

My ASW20C came with only a CG hook. After several years, I retrofitted
it with a nose hook. The improvement on takeoff was significant, and it
was also better in the air. A very worthwhile change, I thought, and I
had about a 1000 hours at the time.


Curious - How does fitting a nose hook make a '20 "better in the air"?
Is it because of a larger opening in the nose? I thought the '20 got
its ventilation via NACA scoops under the wings. Am I missing something?

--
Dan
5J

Dan Marotta wrote on 1/12/2021 11:39 AM:
On 1/12/21 12:02 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
BG wrote on 1/11/2021 9:34 PM:
Another issue is the risk you are imposing on the tow pilot.* Most of these older ships have
CG hooks that provide little help in directional control.** Kiting is also a killer.* My
club lost a towpilot this last year due to kiting.

My ASW20C came with only a CG hook. After several years, I retrofitted it with a nose hook.
The improvement on takeoff was significant, and it was also better in the air. A very
worthwhile change, I thought, and I had about a 1000 hours at the time.


Curious - How does fitting a nose hook make a '20 "better in the air"? Is it because of a
larger opening in the nose?* I thought the '20 got its ventilation via NACA scoops under the
wings.* Am I missing something?

"Better in the air" referred to being on tow, off the ground. Once the rope is gone - no change.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On 1/12/21 12:44 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Dan Marotta wrote on 1/12/2021 11:39 AM:
On 1/12/21 12:02 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
BG wrote on 1/11/2021 9:34 PM:
Another issue is the risk you are imposing on the tow pilot.Â* Most
of these older ships have CG hooks that provide little help in
directional control.Â*Â* Kiting is also a killer.Â* My club lost a
towpilot this last year due to kiting.

My ASW20C came with only a CG hook. After several years, I
retrofitted it with a nose hook. The improvement on takeoff was
significant, and it was also better in the air. A very worthwhile
change, I thought, and I had about a 1000 hours at the time.


Curious - How does fitting a nose hook make a '20 "better in the air"?
Is it because of a larger opening in the nose?Â* I thought the '20 got
its ventilation via NACA scoops under the wings.Â* Am I missing something?

"Better in the air" referred to being on tow, off the ground. Once the
rope is gone - no change.

Got it, thanks!

--
Dan
5J