Question about Rear Admiral, lower half

John Penta wrote:

looks Y'know, why don't they do the USN rank structure like THIS:


O-6 commanding squadron: Fleet Captain
O-7: Commodore
O-8: Rear Admiral
O-9: Vice Admiral
0-10: Admiral
O-11 (5-star): Fleet Admiral.

It provides a nice symmatery, I'd think.

Symmetry too. ;-

Unfortunately, at the top end there will never again be a five-star
Admiral, Fleet or otherwise [nor a five-star general, either]. The
only reason we ever had them [remembering that Washington's and
Pershing's designations as Generals of the Armies came well after
their respective wars] was as an attempt to shut up Monty, who was
causing Ike all sorts of grief. It was a hope that making Ike a
five-star to match Monty's baton would ease things. And if Ike got
five, then Leahy, Marshall, King, Arnold, Nimitz had to get them too.
Which made it Army 4 to the Navy's 3. That wouldn't do, so ...

At the bottom end there are even more problems. Rear Admirals of
either flavor, O-7 or O-8, are very protective of their rank title.
Are you too young to remember the, mercifully brief, imbroglios when
O-7s were briefly titled Commodore/Commodore-Admiral? They grudgingly
accepted, after a long fight, wearing only one-star, but the title of
Commodore or Commodore-Admiral was anathema. The only flag officers
to carry the rank/title of Commodore were the retreads called back in
WWII to command convoys. "And you want to call *us* Commodores?"

And O-6 division/squadron/whatever commanders are also very parochial
about their being called Commodore. "Fleet Captain? Sounds like I'm
the Sixth Fleet Chief of Staff. I *command* a [SubRon, CruDesRon,
WhateverRon], I don't push papers for some Admiral like an Executive
Assistant."

We Marines are very protective of our own history, customs, and
traditions, but we have to tip our covers in admiration of the Navy
Officer Corps attitudes in that respect. They make us look like we
chase the latest fads.

On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 14:22:59 -0400, Ogden Johnson III
wrote:



At the bottom end there are even more problems. Rear Admirals of
either flavor, O-7 or O-8, are very protective of their rank title.
Are you too young to remember the, mercifully brief, imbroglios when
O-7s were briefly titled Commodore/Commodore-Admiral? They grudgingly
accepted, after a long fight, wearing only one-star, but the title of
Commodore or Commodore-Admiral was anathema. The only flag officers
to carry the rank/title of Commodore were the retreads called back in
WWII to command convoys. "And you want to call *us* Commodores?"

reads I was born in 1983, so forgive me if I seem naive.

I'm not as much of an idiot as I may appear, really.:-)

I'm MORE of an idiot than I appear.:-)

Being a Commodore, is a lot like being "frocked" or kissed by your cousin.
It may make you feal good but it doesn't count.

Ogden Johnson III wrote:
The only flag officers to carry the rank/title of Commodore were
the retreads called back in WWII to command convoys. "And you want
to call *us* Commodores?"

I'm a little confused (but what else is new?).

Didn't Arleigh Burke carry the rank of Commodore when he was
Mitscher's Chief of Staff?

I thought he had commanded a DesRon prior to that, but like I said, I
may be confused.

--
Joel.

"Joel Shepherd" wrote in message
ink.net...
Ogden Johnson III wrote:
The only flag officers to carry the rank/title of Commodore were
the retreads called back in WWII to command convoys. "And you want
to call *us* Commodores?"

I'm a little confused (but what else is new?).

Didn't Arleigh Burke carry the rank of Commodore when he was
Mitscher's Chief of Staff?

I thought he had commanded a DesRon prior to that, but like I said, I
may be confused.


You're quite right. Capt Burke was a "title" commodore as ComDesRon 23 in
1943 and '44. He was assigned as chief of staff to CTF 58 (Mitscher) in
March 1944.

Meanwhile the actual rank of commodore was being revived. There were quite
a number of captains serving in low-flag-level posts, but Ernest King
worried that creating a bunch of new RAdms would clog up the post-war ranks.
He proposed that the grade of commodore be reinstated for these officers,
but as a temporary rank that would be phased out after the war.

FDR approved, but said that he preferred that this traditional rank be given
only to line commanders.

King also proposed that the wartime commodores be appointed directly by the
President, but the Senate refused to
give up their confirmation power, even for a temporary rank.

In April 1943 the rank of commodore was reinstated. The lone broad stripe
and one star insignia (which, though unused, were still in the Uniform Regs)
were worn again, and the one-star broad pennant reappeared in the signal
books. Despite FDR's original wishes, there were a number of medical,
supply and civil engineer corps commodores.

The billet of CoS to a VAdm became a commodore slot in mid-1944, and Burke
was promoted accordingly. At the same time King formalized the practice of
pairing an aviator commander with a black shoe CoS and vice versa. Thus
Spruance's trusted CoS Capt Carl Moore was relieved by RAdm Arthur Davis,
while Commodores Valentine Schaeffer and Tom Jeter (recent carrier captains)
were assigned to VAdms Kinkaid and Lee respectively.

Burke, like most other wartime commodores, reverted to captain when the rank
was phased out post-war. There were few, if any, promotions from Como to
RAdm.

--Justin

Justin- while Commodores Valentine Schaeffer and Tom Jeter (recent carrier
captains) BRBR

Did Commodore Schaeffer have a callsign when he was a JO??
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer