$1 billion BMS Ooops...

Matthew Scutter wrote on 3/10/2021 9:19 PM:
On Thursday, March 11, 2021 at 1:49:45 PM UTC+10, kinsell wrote:
On 3/6/21 1:13 PM, Kenn Sebesta wrote:

The genius of all this is that as battery tech improves the existing plane just gets better and better. When you're looking at your replacement pack 5-10 years down the road you'll automatically benefit from all the improvements and your new pack will either be cheaper, or it'll fly longer, or it'll be lighter. Maybe all three. Certainly never saw 100LL get cheaper, better, and lighter!


Well, ten years ago the FES folks came out with with their Gen 1
batteries featuring 2.1 kWhr of capacity. Now we're up to Gen 2,
featuring a walloping 2.1 kWhr. See how much improvement there's been?
They did manage to take the metal filings out of the packs, so yeah I
guess they did get a little lighter.

Wonder if Nadler has ripped the batteries out of his 15 year old wings
and put in super cells to make an Antares Turbo? I'm guessing not.

So do people buying a self launcher only want to do a 1K' launch? The
guy in Connecticut thought he'd dip into the "excess capacity" somebody
was talking about, and squeak back to the airport at rooftop level.
Unfortunately he found himself below rooftop level in no time flat.

They're onto GEN3 now:
The GEN3 53Ah / 5.5kWh packs have 32% more energy in a package 13% larger.
The GEN3 70Ah / 7.7kWh packs have 85% more energy in a package 25% larger.

Our current situation reminds me of 25 years ago, when I got my ASH26E. Pilots with or wanting
self launchers were reminded that "real glider pilots" did not need motors to go soaring, and
it was essentially cheating to use one for records or contests. Now, motorgliders (at least gas
powered ones) are accepted and desired by those that don't have one. Nonetheless, the prejudice
and bias have not disappeared, but have shifted the focus to electric motorgliders and their
pilots. Those pilots are reminded that "real glider pilots" want the power and range that only
a gas powered glider can deliver, and will soon regret their foolishness if they stick with or
choose electric gliders.

I don't think it will take 15+ more years for electric gliders to be accepted and desired like
gas powered gliders are now. With FES and mast-mounted electrics available from all the major
manufacturers, I think this year is the "tipping point", and sales of electrics will "soon"
increase faster than the gas powered sales; unfortunately, I don't know of any good way to
track sales.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

One of the things that attracts me about FES is precisely the relatively shorter range, so you still depend largely on your soaring skills to make it back, while still able to self launch and only occasionally relight just enough to get that last 1000 feet climb when the day died a little too early....

Ramy





On Thursday, March 11, 2021 at 7:33:55 PM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Matthew Scutter wrote on 3/10/2021 9:19 PM:
On Thursday, March 11, 2021 at 1:49:45 PM UTC+10, kinsell wrote:
On 3/6/21 1:13 PM, Kenn Sebesta wrote:

The genius of all this is that as battery tech improves the existing plane just gets better and better. When you're looking at your replacement pack 5-10 years down the road you'll automatically benefit from all the improvements and your new pack will either be cheaper, or it'll fly longer, or it'll be lighter. Maybe all three. Certainly never saw 100LL get cheaper, better, and lighter!


Well, ten years ago the FES folks came out with with their Gen 1
batteries featuring 2.1 kWhr of capacity. Now we're up to Gen 2,
featuring a walloping 2.1 kWhr. See how much improvement there's been?
They did manage to take the metal filings out of the packs, so yeah I
guess they did get a little lighter.

Wonder if Nadler has ripped the batteries out of his 15 year old wings
and put in super cells to make an Antares Turbo? I'm guessing not.

So do people buying a self launcher only want to do a 1K' launch? The
guy in Connecticut thought he'd dip into the "excess capacity" somebody
was talking about, and squeak back to the airport at rooftop level.
Unfortunately he found himself below rooftop level in no time flat.

They're onto GEN3 now:
The GEN3 53Ah / 5.5kWh packs have 32% more energy in a package 13% larger.
The GEN3 70Ah / 7.7kWh packs have 85% more energy in a package 25% larger.

Our current situation reminds me of 25 years ago, when I got my ASH26E. Pilots with or wanting
self launchers were reminded that "real glider pilots" did not need motors to go soaring, and
it was essentially cheating to use one for records or contests. Now, motorgliders (at least gas
powered ones) are accepted and desired by those that don't have one. Nonetheless, the prejudice
and bias have not disappeared, but have shifted the focus to electric motorgliders and their
pilots. Those pilots are reminded that "real glider pilots" want the power and range that only
a gas powered glider can deliver, and will soon regret their foolishness if they stick with or
choose electric gliders.

I don't think it will take 15+ more years for electric gliders to be accepted and desired like
gas powered gliders are now. With FES and mast-mounted electrics available from all the major
manufacturers, I think this year is the "tipping point", and sales of electrics will "soon"
increase faster than the gas powered sales; unfortunately, I don't know of any good way to
track sales.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Friday, 12 March 2021 at 04:33:55 UTC+1, Eric Greenwell wrote:

I don't think it will take 15+ more years for electric gliders to be accepted and desired like
gas powered gliders are now. With FES and mast-mounted electrics available from all the major
manufacturers, I think this year is the "tipping point", and sales of electrics will "soon"
increase faster than the gas powered sales; unfortunately, I don't know of any good way to
track sales.

Just one datapoint, Jonker in their latest newsletter reported the following about their electrical JS3 RES:
"The first 5 JS3 RES gliders are currently in production with another 30 planned for 2021."
If they plan to produce 35 electrical JS3s in 2021, I assume that will be most of their production of JS3s. They produced their 100th JS3 last year, 4 years after it was introduced, so up until then average production was around 25 per year.

Of course, they don't have any combustion engine self launch version of the JS3 to compare with, though the heavily delayed JS2 is about to enter production. Don't know any order numbers for that one.

On 3/12/21 1:38 AM, wrote:
On Friday, 12 March 2021 at 04:33:55 UTC+1, Eric Greenwell wrote:

I don't think it will take 15+ more years for electric gliders to be accepted and desired like
gas powered gliders are now. With FES and mast-mounted electrics available from all the major
manufacturers, I think this year is the "tipping point", and sales of electrics will "soon"
increase faster than the gas powered sales; unfortunately, I don't know of any good way to
track sales.

Just one datapoint, Jonker in their latest newsletter reported the following about their electrical JS3 RES:
"The first 5 JS3 RES gliders are currently in production with another 30 planned for 2021."
If they plan to produce 35 electrical JS3s in 2021, I assume that will be most of their production of JS3s. They produced their 100th JS3 last year, 4 years after it was introduced, so up until then average production was around 25 per year.

Of course, they don't have any combustion engine self launch version of the JS3 to compare with, though the heavily delayed JS2 is about to enter production. Don't know any order numbers for that one.


When it comes to 'heavily delayed', nothing can hold a candle to the
GP-14 and 15. In August, we heard they hoped to freeze the overall
design of the units in Q1. As Q1 grinds to an end, wonder what they're
telling aspiring customers now? They've gone uncharacteristically quiet
on social media. The picture of the (former) RK glider sitting in the
snow is getting a bit stale.

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 8:26:29 PM UTC-4, kinsell wrote:
On 3/12/21 1:38 AM, wrote:
On Friday, 12 March 2021 at 04:33:55 UTC+1, Eric Greenwell wrote:

I don't think it will take 15+ more years for electric gliders to be accepted and desired like
gas powered gliders are now. With FES and mast-mounted electrics available from all the major
manufacturers, I think this year is the "tipping point", and sales of electrics will "soon"
increase faster than the gas powered sales; unfortunately, I don't know of any good way to
track sales.

Just one datapoint, Jonker in their latest newsletter reported the following about their electrical JS3 RES:
"The first 5 JS3 RES gliders are currently in production with another 30 planned for 2021."
If they plan to produce 35 electrical JS3s in 2021, I assume that will be most of their production of JS3s. They produced their 100th JS3 last year, 4 years after it was introduced, so up until then average production was around 25 per year.

Of course, they don't have any combustion engine self launch version of the JS3 to compare with, though the heavily delayed JS2 is about to enter production. Don't know any order numbers for that one.


When it comes to 'heavily delayed', nothing can hold a candle to the
GP-14 and 15. In August, we heard they hoped to freeze the overall
design of the units in Q1. As Q1 grinds to an end, wonder what they're
telling aspiring customers now? They've gone uncharacteristically quiet
on social media. The picture of the (former) RK glider sitting in the
snow is getting a bit stale.

The US rep has sent an update message to those on his circulation list.
UH

On 3/31/21 10:12 AM, Hank Nixon wrote:
On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 8:26:29 PM UTC-4, kinsell wrote:
On 3/12/21 1:38 AM, wrote:
On Friday, 12 March 2021 at 04:33:55 UTC+1, Eric Greenwell wrote:

I don't think it will take 15+ more years for electric gliders to be accepted and desired like
gas powered gliders are now. With FES and mast-mounted electrics available from all the major
manufacturers, I think this year is the "tipping point", and sales of electrics will "soon"
increase faster than the gas powered sales; unfortunately, I don't know of any good way to
track sales.

Just one datapoint, Jonker in their latest newsletter reported the following about their electrical JS3 RES:
"The first 5 JS3 RES gliders are currently in production with another 30 planned for 2021."
If they plan to produce 35 electrical JS3s in 2021, I assume that will be most of their production of JS3s. They produced their 100th JS3 last year, 4 years after it was introduced, so up until then average production was around 25 per year.

Of course, they don't have any combustion engine self launch version of the JS3 to compare with, though the heavily delayed JS2 is about to enter production. Don't know any order numbers for that one.


When it comes to 'heavily delayed', nothing can hold a candle to the
GP-14 and 15. In August, we heard they hoped to freeze the overall
design of the units in Q1. As Q1 grinds to an end, wonder what they're
telling aspiring customers now? They've gone uncharacteristically quiet
on social media. The picture of the (former) RK glider sitting in the
snow is getting a bit stale.

The US rep has sent an update message to those on his circulation list.
UH


That's nice. But at some point they need to deliver actual working
gliders. Working gliders that meet their amazing specs would be even
better. Could happen, but their past history does not give one much
hope. I have multiple friends who have these things on order, I hope
it does work out for their sake, but won't be holding my breath. Like
they say, hope is not a strategy.