The decline of gliding - a worldwide issue?

On Friday, 12 March 2021 at 14:38:06 UTC, wrote:
Regretfully you seem to have misunderstood what has been said.

Nobody is suggesting that standing around on an airfield all day for a 20min flight is an ambition!

The idea is that fewer people would be willing to do this and as such gliding, in its current form, does not satisfy the demands of modern society.

I can see what you've said, more or less the same each time.

I'm describing the way things are, including that demand varies with the weather, and that except at the peak launching time on the busiest days they don't actually impede your wish to do things your own way, either individually or with a group of similar thinkers.

I just think yours might be a smaller market.

I am afraid that I have no idea what your point is, or how it would fit into a discussion about the decline of gliding.
As I see it, everybody has their own individual goals within gliding, yes. I'm just not sure how this is relevant to the discussion.

On Friday, March 12, 2021 at 3:13:47 PM UTC, andy l wrote:
On Friday, 12 March 2021 at 14:38:06 UTC, wrote:
Regretfully you seem to have misunderstood what has been said.

Nobody is suggesting that standing around on an airfield all day for a 20min flight is an ambition!

The idea is that fewer people would be willing to do this and as such gliding, in its current form, does not satisfy the demands of modern society..

I can see what you've said, more or less the same each time.

I'm describing the way things are, including that demand varies with the weather, and that except at the peak launching time on the busiest days they don't actually impede your wish to do things your own way, either individually or with a group of similar thinkers.

I just think yours might be a smaller market.

OK- my thoughts on gliding's decline:

1-Current pilots are getting older and eventually quitting. It happens in every other sport too, and we can't really do anything about it. Viagra doesn't help in this case.
2-New participants are often discouraged by the seemingly endless process of, first, learning to fly and then learning to soar. Exceptions can be made for either pilots who are transitioning from powered aircraft (although they often keep fumbling around looking for the throttle) or pilots of other soaring aircraft (hang gliders, paragliders) who know how to find and work lift but don't know what to do with their feet. (That was me. "Running" on the rudder pedals on touchdown caused the Instructor in the back to emit loud noises.)
3-Learning can be extremely time consuming and stretch out forever. The Albuquerque Soaring Club only offers instruction one day a week, so if there are multiple students, only one or two flights per lesson might be possible. This means it could take MONTHS before getting to solo. And switching duty Instructors every week doesn't help.
4-Commercial instruction can be tailored to the student's schedule, needs and budget, but is often too expensive for younger participants. Older ones, too, but more discretionary money is generally found with more mature individuals
5-Equipment is expensive. Unless the local club or FBO has a decent fleet, you are stuck with a partnership and/or less desirable aircraft. Once again, time, opportunity and demand seem to conspire to reduce the availability of shared equipment, especially during the best soaring conditions.

I am sure there are many other reasons, but these occurred to me first. I also saw the same things at the end of my 28 years in hang gliding as I was transitioning into gliders. Hang gliding has the same problems.

On Friday, March 12, 2021 at 8:08:18 AM UTC-8, Mark Mocho wrote:
OK- my thoughts on gliding's decline:

1-Current pilots are getting older and eventually quitting. It happens in every other sport too, and we can't really do anything about it. Viagra doesn't help in this case.
2-New participants are often discouraged by the seemingly endless process of, first, learning to fly and then learning to soar. Exceptions can be made for either pilots who are transitioning from powered aircraft (although they often keep fumbling around looking for the throttle) or pilots of other soaring aircraft (hang gliders, paragliders) who know how to find and work lift but don't know what to do with their feet. (That was me. "Running" on the rudder pedals on touchdown caused the Instructor in the back to emit loud noises.)
3-Learning can be extremely time consuming and stretch out forever. The Albuquerque Soaring Club only offers instruction one day a week, so if there are multiple students, only one or two flights per lesson might be possible. This means it could take MONTHS before getting to solo. And switching duty Instructors every week doesn't help.
4-Commercial instruction can be tailored to the student's schedule, needs and budget, but is often too expensive for younger participants. Older ones, too, but more discretionary money is generally found with more mature individuals
5-Equipment is expensive. Unless the local club or FBO has a decent fleet, you are stuck with a partnership and/or less desirable aircraft. Once again, time, opportunity and demand seem to conspire to reduce the availability of shared equipment, especially during the best soaring conditions.

I am sure there are many other reasons, but these occurred to me first. I also saw the same things at the end of my 28 years in hang gliding as I was transitioning into gliders. Hang gliding has the same problems.

A welcome advancement unavailable when I was learning is instruction using flight simulators such as Condor. Scott Manley has been doing this successfully for years (https://glidercfi.com/author/smanley/).

Tom

One other possible reason for a decline in new students in the US is the rather common scenario of getting somebody interested in the sport, telling them all about the great cross country flights we make and showing them the modern crop of high-performance aircraft we fly. They get excited about the concept and commit to taking lessons. Then, the club or FBO tries to stick them in a Schweizer 2-33 and they back out. I've known several folks who refused to take lessons in something that looks like Fred Flintstone built it. Fortunately, they went over to the commercial operator and started in a Grob 103. Better, but still not a Duo Discus.

One guy commented that it was a typical "Bait and Switch" ploy. He was laughing, but he was also serious. I totally understood. I did the same thing when i took lessons in 1999 from Sundance Aviation in Moriarty, NM. I refused to get in a 2-33 until the Albuquerque Soaring Club insisted I get checked out in it before I could fly their G-103, an aircraft I had flown 52 times and logged over 40 hours in (including initial training flights and a lot of pattern tows.) So, I am stuck with three flights in the 2-33 in my logbook. I was hoping I could avoid ever sitting in one.

Similar problem here in the UK where people are obsessed with telling trial lessons about high-performance gliders and how competitive gliding involves flying hundreds of km faster than an F1 car.
Then they're put in the front of a K13 with an old fuddy duddy.

On Saturday, March 13, 2021 at 9:22:15 PM UTC, Mark Mocho wrote:
One other possible reason for a decline in new students in the US is the rather common scenario of getting somebody interested in the sport, telling them all about the great cross country flights we make and showing them the modern crop of high-performance aircraft we fly. They get excited about the concept and commit to taking lessons. Then, the club or FBO tries to stick them in a Schweizer 2-33 and they back out. I've known several folks who refused to take lessons in something that looks like Fred Flintstone built it. Fortunately, they went over to the commercial operator and started in a Grob 103. Better, but still not a Duo Discus.

One guy commented that it was a typical "Bait and Switch" ploy. He was laughing, but he was also serious. I totally understood. I did the same thing when i took lessons in 1999 from Sundance Aviation in Moriarty, NM. I refused to get in a 2-33 until the Albuquerque Soaring Club insisted I get checked out in it before I could fly their G-103, an aircraft I had flown 52 times and logged over 40 hours in (including initial training flights and a lot of pattern tows.) So, I am stuck with three flights in the 2-33 in my logbook. I was hoping I could avoid ever sitting in one.

On Sunday, 14 March 2021 at 08:45:15 UTC, wrote:
Similar problem here in the UK where people are obsessed with telling trial lessons about high-performance gliders and how competitive gliding involves flying hundreds of km faster than an F1 car.
Then they're put in the front of a K13 with an old fuddy duddy.

The UK appatently has 89 AS-K 13s and 82 ASK 21s, of which one is self-launching and not owned by a club. 52 Duo Discus, mostly privately owned of course, but the larger clubs own one or two each.

Many years ago our club had a Janus, for soaring and cross country training, but they didn't spare it rest of the time. It did plenty of evening trial flights. I remember at one time it had 5000 launches and 2000 hours (which made me criticise someone who said it never paid its way)