The decline of gliding - a worldwide issue?

;-[)

Nicely put!

Dan
5J

On 3/17/21 5:06 AM, krasw wrote:
On Tuesday, 16 March 2021 at 01:40:43 UTC+2, ProfJ wrote:

Seriously, though, those young folks who you do see promoting the sport are all coming from countries where gliding is heavily subsidized by....wait for it...taxpayer money.

Yes in Europe everything is subsidized or paid by governments. We don't actually work anymore, we just soar if it's not skiing season or beach day. And taxes? Yep, we found out that you can make government pay them instead of individual people.

On Wednesday, 17 March 2021 at 08:53:17 UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
;-[)

Nicely put!

Dan
5J
On 3/17/21 5:06 AM, krasw wrote:
On Tuesday, 16 March 2021 at 01:40:43 UTC+2, ProfJ wrote:

Seriously, though, those young folks who you do see promoting the sport are all coming from countries where gliding is heavily subsidized by....wait for it...taxpayer money.

Yes in Europe everything is subsidized or paid by governments. We don't actually work anymore, we just soar if it's not skiing season or beach day.. And taxes? Yep, we found out that you can make government pay them instead of individual people.

So the Sportssoldaten are not subsidized with taxpayer money, they're just paid by the government to fly full time? OK, got it. And the accumulated subsidies that the clubs received don't carry any momentum either (those poor French clubs, soon they're going to have to buy their own tugs!). It's just like all those kids at Harvard, whose parents were also at Harvard, but they're there on merit and their own nickel (from the 'rents). I stand entirely corrected...

On Thursday, 25 March 2021 at 04:09:11 UTC+2, ProfJ wrote:

So the Sportssoldaten are not subsidized with taxpayer money, they're just paid by the government to fly full time? OK, got it. And the accumulated subsidies that the clubs received don't carry any momentum either (those poor French clubs, soon they're going to have to buy their own tugs!). It's just like all those kids at Harvard, whose parents were also at Harvard, but they're there on merit and their own nickel (from the 'rents). I stand entirely corrected...

As a resident of one European country (FYI there are many) I too believe the societies here are the best in the world and you have every reason to be jealous of them.

On Thursday, 25 March 2021 at 04:09:11 UTC+2, ProfJ wrote:

So the Sportssoldaten are not subsidized with taxpayer money, they're just paid by the government to fly full time? OK, got it. And the accumulated subsidies that the clubs received don't carry any momentum either (those poor French clubs, soon they're going to have to buy their own tugs!). It's just like all those kids at Harvard, whose parents were also at Harvard, but they're there on merit and their own nickel (from the 'rents). I stand entirely corrected...

As a resident of one European country (FYI there are many) I too believe the societies here are the best in the world and you have every reason to be jealous of them.

On Wednesday, March 24, 2021 at 10:09:11 PM UTC-4, ProfJ wrote:
On Wednesday, 17 March 2021 at 08:53:17 UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
;-[)

Nicely put!

Dan
5J
On 3/17/21 5:06 AM, krasw wrote:
On Tuesday, 16 March 2021 at 01:40:43 UTC+2, ProfJ wrote:

Seriously, though, those young folks who you do see promoting the sport are all coming from countries where gliding is heavily subsidized by.....wait for it...taxpayer money.

Yes in Europe everything is subsidized or paid by governments. We don't actually work anymore, we just soar if it's not skiing season or beach day. And taxes? Yep, we found out that you can make government pay them instead of individual people.

So the Sportssoldaten are not subsidized with taxpayer money, they're just paid by the government to fly full time? OK, got it. And the accumulated subsidies that the clubs received don't carry any momentum either (those poor French clubs, soon they're going to have to buy their own tugs!). It's just like all those kids at Harvard, whose parents were also at Harvard, but they're there on merit and their own nickel (from the 'rents). I stand entirely corrected...

On the subject of the 'Sportsoldaten', how is the soaring program of the Air Force Academy in CO funded? By the cadet's parents? By the alumni of the Academy? By a donation box at the local gas-station?
Or what about the Civil Air Patrol (CAP)? They run a glider program and even own a few winches.
If you take just the budget for these programs alone, I bet it eclipses the 'tax-payer subsidy' of soaring clubs in any European country, if it even exists!
Don't get me wrong - I am not saying that these two programs funded by the defense budget shouldn't exist but I think they are worth mentioning when we are discussing publicly funded soaring activities in other countries.

Uli
'AS'

AS wrote on 3/25/2021 5:26 AM:
On Wednesday, March 24, 2021 at 10:09:11 PM UTC-4, ProfJ wrote:
On Wednesday, 17 March 2021 at 08:53:17 UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
;-[)

Nicely put!

Dan
5J
On 3/17/21 5:06 AM, krasw wrote:
On Tuesday, 16 March 2021 at 01:40:43 UTC+2, ProfJ wrote:

Seriously, though, those young folks who you do see promoting the sport are all coming from countries where gliding is heavily subsidized by.....wait for it...taxpayer money.

Yes in Europe everything is subsidized or paid by governments. We don't actually work anymore, we just soar if it's not skiing season or beach day. And taxes? Yep, we found out that you can make government pay them instead of individual people.

So the Sportssoldaten are not subsidized with taxpayer money, they're just paid by the government to fly full time? OK, got it. And the accumulated subsidies that the clubs received don't carry any momentum either (those poor French clubs, soon they're going to have to buy their own tugs!). It's just like all those kids at Harvard, whose parents were also at Harvard, but they're there on merit and their own nickel (from the 'rents). I stand entirely corrected...

On the subject of the 'Sportsoldaten', how is the soaring program of the Air Force Academy in CO funded? By the cadet's parents? By the alumni of the Academy? By a donation box at the local gas-station?
Or what about the Civil Air Patrol (CAP)? They run a glider program and even own a few winches.
If you take just the budget for these programs alone, I bet it eclipses the 'tax-payer subsidy' of soaring clubs in any European country, if it even exists!
Don't get me wrong - I am not saying that these two programs funded by the defense budget shouldn't exist but I think they are worth mentioning when we are discussing publicly funded soaring activities in other countries.

Neither program, Air Force or CAP, is intended to promote soaring. The Air Force "soaring"
program is really a simple gliding operation that can take participants to solo, and like the
similar airplane operation, is intended to introduce cadets to basic airmanship. You have to be
in the Air Force to use the program, so it is definitely not comparable to publicly accessible
soaring centers that get aid from the government.
-
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

The USAF Academy's soaring program is also the cheapest initial pilot training in the Air Force.

On Thursday, March 25, 2021 at 10:29:39 AM UTC-4, Mark Mocho wrote:
The USAF Academy's soaring program is also the cheapest initial pilot training in the Air Force.

Eric, Mark

I get that the Academy and CAP require you to join 'the club' and in these cases, the club kindly asks you to wear a uniform. ;-)
The Academy also sponsors their cadet's participation in contests, so it is not all about leadership and basic airmanship.
I agree with Mark that this is the cheapest initial pilot training - not only in the US-Air Force but also with many Air Forces around the world.
My hope is that folks who become exposed to flying glider (soaring or not) though either one of these taxpayer funded programs will one day return to the sport and therefore, I count them as such.

Uli
'AS'

AS wrote on 3/25/2021 9:01 AM:
On Thursday, March 25, 2021 at 10:29:39 AM UTC-4, Mark Mocho wrote:
The USAF Academy's soaring program is also the cheapest initial pilot training in the Air Force.

Eric, Mark

I get that the Academy and CAP require you to join 'the club' and in these cases, the club kindly asks you to wear a uniform. ;-)
The Academy also sponsors their cadet's participation in contests, so it is not all about leadership and basic airmanship.
I agree with Mark that this is the cheapest initial pilot training - not only in the US-Air Force but also with many Air Forces around the world.
My hope is that folks who become exposed to flying glider (soaring or not) though either one of these taxpayer funded programs will one day return to the sport and therefore, I count them as such.

Who has come to soaring due to exposure to gliders in USAF or the CAP? Anyone? I'm sure there
must be some, but I'm not aware of any.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Thursday, March 25, 2021 at 9:01:53 AM UTC-7, AS wrote:
On Thursday, March 25, 2021 at 10:29:39 AM UTC-4, Mark Mocho wrote:
The USAF Academy's soaring program is also the cheapest initial pilot training in the Air Force.
Eric, Mark

I get that the Academy and CAP require you to join 'the club' and in these cases, the club kindly asks you to wear a uniform. ;-)
The Academy also sponsors their cadet's participation in contests, so it is not all about leadership and basic airmanship.
I agree with Mark that this is the cheapest initial pilot training - not only in the US-Air Force but also with many Air Forces around the world.
My hope is that folks who become exposed to flying glider (soaring or not) though either one of these taxpayer funded programs will one day return to the sport and therefore, I count them as such.

Uli
'AS'

Yes, the AF Cadets can have the privilege of flying a contest. They fly within very stringent mission parameters. These events not only expose the pilots to advanced gliding, but the entire squadron by supporting the pilots. This support develops discipline, teamwork, and comradery. All very important attributes to further their careers. The flying is only one piece of the event for them.