Wearing a G-1 flight jacket off base?

Michael wrote:

"Doug \"Woody\" and Erin Beal" wrote in message ...
The "worried about" comment wasn't meant to be pointed directly at you,
Michael. In 17 years of doing this stuff, I'm a bit frustrated at the folks
who *do* make a big deal of it (for various reasons). I can understand your
curiosity factor... Which is why I made the attempt at answering the
question instead of ending the post after the top line.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I wasn't sure if you felt I was one
of the uptight people that worried about stuff like that.

But since my nerve has been inadvertently touched, allow me a small rant...

The black shoe Navy (and some senior Flag aviators who have forgotten what
it was like to be a JO) have gone a two different ways with flight clothing.

(a) In the past, hold the aviators down by banning them from wearing the
flight suit/jackets anywhere off base. Mighty frustrating having to change
out of the flight suit to get gas while USAF dudes were having lunch at
Burger King in theirs... Thank goodness those days are over.

(b) Currently, they have proliferated it and made it something less
"special" or unique to aviation. Not that I wear khakis very often, but
when I do, I am proud to be a "brown shoe." Nowadays, the black shoes have
the option of wearing brown shoes too (though honestly most don't for the
same reason I don't wear the black ones)

Why are they given the option of wearing brown shoes now?!

BUT many of them opt for the green Nomex flight jacket (which used to
be an "aviators only item) instead of the (standard) khaki jacket.

Hmm, that's no good. The Nomex should remain an aviator only garment.

~Michael

On my Tin Can, which was new construction, we had a full complement of nice new foul weather gear. In addition to the
regular green cloth jackets, we had a number of "Extreme foul weather" coats. These were some kind of shiny synthetic, well
padded and insulated, and had a cool looking rib running down the outside of each sleeve.

Naturally , these were much coveted and a command decision was made to issue them to officers and chiefs only. This
directive was modified down in the gear locker to be: officers, chiefs, and SK (Storekeeper) petty officers.

As you would expect, this created an immediate uproar and the original unmodified policy was quickly forced, enforced and
reinforced. The SK's hadn't really expected to get away with it anyway.

I don't think the flight gear battles are a whole lot different.

Bob McKellar, former Tin Can Pork Chop

On 10/18/03 8:14 PM, in article , "Bob
McKellar" wrote:



Michael wrote:

"Doug \"Woody\" and Erin Beal" wrote in message
...
The "worried about" comment wasn't meant to be pointed directly at you,
Michael. In 17 years of doing this stuff, I'm a bit frustrated at the folks
who *do* make a big deal of it (for various reasons). I can understand your
curiosity factor... Which is why I made the attempt at answering the
question instead of ending the post after the top line.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I wasn't sure if you felt I was one
of the uptight people that worried about stuff like that.

But since my nerve has been inadvertently touched, allow me a small rant...

The black shoe Navy (and some senior Flag aviators who have forgotten what
it was like to be a JO) have gone a two different ways with flight clothing.

(a) In the past, hold the aviators down by banning them from wearing the
flight suit/jackets anywhere off base. Mighty frustrating having to change
out of the flight suit to get gas while USAF dudes were having lunch at
Burger King in theirs... Thank goodness those days are over.

(b) Currently, they have proliferated it and made it something less
"special" or unique to aviation. Not that I wear khakis very often, but
when I do, I am proud to be a "brown shoe." Nowadays, the black shoes have
the option of wearing brown shoes too (though honestly most don't for the
same reason I don't wear the black ones)

Why are they given the option of wearing brown shoes now?!

BUT many of them opt for the green Nomex flight jacket (which used to
be an "aviators only item) instead of the (standard) khaki jacket.

Hmm, that's no good. The Nomex should remain an aviator only garment.

~Michael

On my Tin Can, which was new construction, we had a full complement of nice
new foul weather gear. In addition to the
regular green cloth jackets, we had a number of "Extreme foul weather" coats.
These were some kind of shiny synthetic, well
padded and insulated, and had a cool looking rib running down the outside of
each sleeve.

Naturally , these were much coveted and a command decision was made to issue
them to officers and chiefs only. This
directive was modified down in the gear locker to be: officers, chiefs, and SK
(Storekeeper) petty officers.

As you would expect, this created an immediate uproar and the original
unmodified policy was quickly forced, enforced and
reinforced. The SK's hadn't really expected to get away with it anyway.

I don't think the flight gear battles are a whole lot different.

Bob McKellar, former Tin Can Pork Chop


As the "chop," I'm sure you have the more "Fox News" balanced perspective
(i.e. had a good view of the issue from both sides).

Keeping in mind my only contact with the black shoe Navy was limited--an
occasional AW conference with the small boy crews in San Diego during my CVW
Strike Ops tour and the assorted bump-intos with staffers assigned to the
CVN, my view may be a bit skewed (not to mention my Neanderthal pilot-monkey
bias), but even the standard light-weight Nomex jackets were coveted by
these guys and immediately festooned with DESRON, DDG, CG, etc patches (just
like their aviator counterparts).

Kinda makes me wanna hurl.

I gotta stop responding to these posts. I feel like I'm just ranting and
beating a dead horse. Truly, folks, I don't lie awake nights freaking out
about this stuff.

--Woody

Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal wrote:
Keeping in mind my only contact with the black shoe Navy was limited--an
occasional AW conference with the small boy crews in San Diego during my
CVW Strike Ops tour and the assorted bump-intos with staffers assigned to
the CVN, my view may be a bit skewed (not to mention my Neanderthal
pilot-monkey bias), but even the standard light-weight Nomex jackets were
coveted by these guys and immediately festooned with DESRON, DDG, CG, etc
patches (just like their aviator counterparts).

Sounds like you object to being admired! Remember, what makes you a Naval
Aviator isn't the clothes you wear. And no matter how salty their jackets,
you've got one thing those guys never will: your wings.

Kinda makes me wanna hurl.

I gotta stop responding to these posts. I feel like I'm just ranting and
beating a dead horse. Truly, folks, I don't lie awake nights freaking out
about this stuff.

Life's definitely too short for that sort of thing.

Here's one: I've got a pristine G-1. I've also got a collection of patches
from commands in which I served, passenger traps on the Lex, a VIP ride
with Blue Angel #7, you get the picture. I am a pilot, but not a Naval
Aviator. Do you take any comfort in knowing that I haven't festooned my
jacket with the patches? (Just asking, but asking sincerely.)

Hey, sitting around Trader's maybe I couldn't drink as much as you guys, but
I could get just as drunk.

--
John Miller
My email address: Domain, n4vu.com; username, jsm

Polymer physicists are into chains.

On 10/19/03 8:40 AM, in article , "John Miller"
wrote:

Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal wrote:
Keeping in mind my only contact with the black shoe Navy was limited--an
occasional AW conference with the small boy crews in San Diego during my
CVW Strike Ops tour and the assorted bump-intos with staffers assigned to
the CVN, my view may be a bit skewed (not to mention my Neanderthal
pilot-monkey bias), but even the standard light-weight Nomex jackets were
coveted by these guys and immediately festooned with DESRON, DDG, CG, etc
patches (just like their aviator counterparts).

Sounds like you object to being admired! Remember, what makes you a Naval
Aviator isn't the clothes you wear. And no matter how salty their jackets,
you've got one thing those guys never will: your wings.


John,

I don't object to being admired. I do object to folks that aren't in my
line of work who want to wear the same clothes I do (in uniform) and then
out of the other side of their mouths tell me where I can and cannot wear
mine.

Don't play in MY sand box while trying to dictate the sand box rules.

Kinda makes me wanna hurl.

I gotta stop responding to these posts. I feel like I'm just ranting and
beating a dead horse. Truly, folks, I don't lie awake nights freaking out
about this stuff.

Here I am not heeding my own advice again. I do what I shouldn't do, and
don't do what I should do.


Life's definitely too short for that sort of thing.

Here's one: I've got a pristine G-1. I've also got a collection of patches
from commands in which I served, passenger traps on the Lex, a VIP ride
with Blue Angel #7, you get the picture. I am a pilot, but not a Naval
Aviator. Do you take any comfort in knowing that I haven't festooned my
jacket with the patches? (Just asking, but asking sincerely.)


John, I don't mind you festooning the jacket like a Winnebago... wearing it
to the Food World... whatever. Have at it. In fact, I bought one and
patched it up for a dear friend of mine who would NEVER have physically
qualified to fly in the military.

The problem I have is with uniformed military non-aviators or folks not
within the aviation community dressing like aviators. (I thought that was
an understood point... My apologies.)

Keep in mind, my opinion on this is more of a pet peeve--even less than
that--a slight objection, but I don't understand how these folks that
haven't earned the wings (and hence the flight attire) want to run around in
the flight clothing.

Doesn't that lead to the slightly embarrassing "JAG moment?" e.g. (from a
real conversation between an civilian who had obviously seen the T.V. show
and a JAG wearing a flight jacket):
"You're a JAG then?"
"Yes, I am."
"What kind of airplane do you fly?"

I guess if folks want to deal with that kind of mild embarrassment, you can
be my guest. Granted, the question was as much about the T.V. show as the
jacket, but the jacket added to the illusion, and all things being equal, he
was legal to wear the jacket because he was working on an aviation flag
staff. I relate this story for the humor as much as the evidential value.

By the way, when I retire, I plan on wearing both of my "Winnebagos" out in
town with the rotund gut I intend to grow and thick, short gray hair, so
everybody can spot me as a ustabe. Fragile ego. Needs fed. |:-)

--Woody

Hey, sitting around Trader's maybe I couldn't drink as much as you guys, but
I could get just as drunk.

I don't do the drunk thing any more. Not worth the cost in the cost/benefit
analysis. |:-)