The decline of gliding - a worldwide issue?

Originally Posted by Frank Whiteley

On Thursday, March 25, 2021 at 8:29:39 AM UTC-6, Mark Mocho wrote:
The USAF Academy's soaring program is also the cheapest initial pilot training in the Air Force.
The Discii were purchased by the Academy Graduates Association for the cadet soaring team, a practice that is no longer allowed, hence no upgrades to that racing fleet. The DG-1001s are used in aerobatic competitions and presumably at XC camps, but not in contests to date. Cadet flight time and training is not recorded on their USAF flight records because, .... USAFA Cadets are not military members until they graduate and are sworn. Therefore that air time does not qualify for FAA ratings consideration as does military flight time.

Not sure this is correct. USAFA Cadets are not military members until they graduate? My understanding was that they were under 38 U.S. Code § 1965 - Definitions
U.S. Code

For the purpose of this subchapter—
(1) The term “active duty” means—
(A) full-time duty in the Armed Forces, other than active duty for training;
(B) full-time duty (other than for training purposes) as a commissioned officer of the Regular or Reserve Corps [1] of the Public Health Service;
(C) full-time duty as a commissioned officer of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration; and
(D) full-time duty as a cadet or midshipman at the United States Military Academy, United States Naval Academy, United States Air Force Academy, or the United States Coast Guard Academy.

So a full-time member of the USAFA would be ACTIVE DUTY. And while they may not be logging glider time to count towards training when they graduate and go to UPT they do select students to become glider instructors. Are those instructors not given General Aviation, FAA certificates as commercial glider pilots and instructors? Or are they as member of the USAFA exempt from the rules the rest of us must follow? Doesn't seem quite right to me.

I've only known a couple of ring knockers during my time as an enlisted swine in the USAF. One put an unopened can (an early pop top version) of Ravioli in the convection oven on the Airborne Battlefield Command and Control Center. When he returned to his seat with his Nomex gloves and popped it open it exploded and distributed itself all over the capsule. The look on his face with red tomato sauce covering him and those around him AND the maps of Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam was to die for. The Director, Airborne Battle Staff was not amused. We were finding Ravioli in that particular capsule for weeks afterwards. The best of the best? Well, maybe a few were.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot

On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 6:43:13 PM UTC-6, Walt Connelly wrote:
Frank Whiteley;1040497 Wrote:
On Thursday, March 25, 2021 at 8:29:39 AM UTC-6, Mark Mocho wrote:-
The USAF Academy's soaring program is also the cheapest initial pilot
training in the Air Force.-
The Discii were purchased by the Academy Graduates Association for the
cadet soaring team, a practice that is no longer allowed, hence no
upgrades to that racing fleet. The DG-1001s are used in aerobatic
competitions and presumably at XC camps, but not in contests to date.
Cadet flight time and training is not recorded on their USAF flight
records because, .... USAFA Cadets are not military members until they
graduate and are sworn. Therefore that air time does not qualify for
FAA ratings consideration as does military flight time.
Not sure this is correct. USAFA Cadets are not military members until
they graduate? My understanding was that they were under 38 U.S. Code §
1965 - Definitions
U.S. Code

For the purpose of this subchapter—
(1) The term “active duty� means—
(A) full-time duty in the Armed Forces, other than active duty for
training;
(B) full-time duty (other than for training purposes) as a commissioned
officer of the Regular or Reserve Corps [1] of the Public Health
Service;
(C) full-time duty as a commissioned officer of the National Oceanic and
Atmospheric Administration; and
(D) full-time duty as a cadet or midshipman at the United States
Military Academy, United States Naval Academy, United States Air Force
Academy, or the United States Coast Guard Academy.

So a full-time member of the USAFA would be ACTIVE DUTY. And while they
may not be logging glider time to count towards training when they
graduate and go to UPT they do select students to become glider
instructors. Are those instructors not given General Aviation, FAA
certificates as commercial glider pilots and instructors? Or are they
as member of the USAFA exempt from the rules the rest of us must follow?
Doesn't seem quite right to me.

I've only known a couple of ring knockers during my time as an enlisted
swine in the USAF. One put an unopened can (an early pop top version) of
Ravioli in the convection oven on the Airborne Battlefield Command and
Control Center. When he returned to his seat with his Nomex gloves and
popped it open it exploded and distributed itself all over the capsule.
The look on his face with red tomato sauce covering him and those around
him AND the maps of Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam was to die for. The
Director, Airborne Battle Staff was not amused. We were finding Ravioli
in that particular capsule for weeks afterwards. The best of the best?
Well, maybe a few were.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot




--
Walt Connelly
Walt,
Considerable effort was made to have their academy flight experience made part of their military record and recognized for FAA credit, all to no avail for the reason stated. You may have found an argument that was ignored or not considered. There are approximately 75 G-wings pinned on USAFA gliding instructors annually. Not all cadets that perform in the USAFA aviation programs continue on to flying positions in the regular air force. Maybe we can take another stab at it. I'll check in with my USAFA contacts.

Frank Whiteley

On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 6:43:13 PM UTC-6, Walt Connelly wrote:

I've only known a couple of ring knockers during my time as an enlisted
swine in the USAF. One put an unopened can (an early pop top version) of
Ravioli in the convection oven on the Airborne Battlefield Command and
Control Center. When he returned to his seat with his Nomex gloves and
popped it open it exploded and distributed itself all over the capsule.
The look on his face with red tomato sauce covering him and those around
him AND the maps of Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam was to die for. The
Director, Airborne Battle Staff was not amused. We were finding Ravioli
in that particular capsule for weeks afterwards. The best of the best?
Well, maybe a few were.

Exploding ravioli? You can do much better than that in the fine art of officer and Zoomie bashing. How about the USAFA grad / retired AF Lt Col fighter pilot / Potato Head posing as an angry, aging, Kevlar-cladded Beetle Bailey / Zip Ties Rambo on the Senate floor? He's a true disgrace to the uniform. Sadly, he's also a paragon of a certain tribal strain of fight-to-the-death-for-my-beliefs "patriots" that have long flowed through the Academy, where the ongoing $158M Cadet Chapel renovation is apparently deemed essential to the matriculation of officer candidates. "Kill'em all and let God sort them out" is a literal threat when you understand the faith-meets-aggression crucible that inflames the far-right craziness among some graduates from USAFA sur Colorado Springs.

Most humiliating and telling, the militant bluster, under police questioning, quickly crumbled to yet another lie, "My thought process there was I would pick [the zip ties] up and give them to an officer...and I honestly forgot about them." Sure, uh huh.

Luckily, Larry the Insurrectionist Zoomie doesn't appear to have any gliding/soaring connection.

Somebody needs to take a chill pill...

Dan
5J

On 3/30/21 9:57 AM, biff the dotard wrote:
On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 6:43:13 PM UTC-6, Walt Connelly wrote:

I've only known a couple of ring knockers during my time as an enlisted
swine in the USAF. One put an unopened can (an early pop top version) of
Ravioli in the convection oven on the Airborne Battlefield Command and
Control Center. When he returned to his seat with his Nomex gloves and
popped it open it exploded and distributed itself all over the capsule.
The look on his face with red tomato sauce covering him and those around
him AND the maps of Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam was to die for. The
Director, Airborne Battle Staff was not amused. We were finding Ravioli
in that particular capsule for weeks afterwards. The best of the best?
Well, maybe a few were.

Exploding ravioli? You can do much better than that in the fine art of officer and Zoomie bashing. How about the USAFA grad / retired AF Lt Col fighter pilot / Potato Head posing as an angry, aging, Kevlar-cladded Beetle Bailey / Zip Ties Rambo on the Senate floor? He's a true disgrace to the uniform. Sadly, he's also a paragon of a certain tribal strain of fight-to-the-death-for-my-beliefs "patriots" that have long flowed through the Academy, where the ongoing $158M Cadet Chapel renovation is apparently deemed essential to the matriculation of officer candidates. "Kill'em all and let God sort them out" is a literal threat when you understand the faith-meets-aggression crucible that inflames the far-right craziness among some graduates from USAFA sur Colorado Springs.

Most humiliating and telling, the militant bluster, under police questioning, quickly crumbled to yet another lie, "My thought process there was I would pick [the zip ties] up and give them to an officer...and I honestly forgot about them." Sure, uh huh.

Luckily, Larry the Insurrectionist Zoomie doesn't appear to have any gliding/soaring connection.

On Tuesday, March 30, 2021 at 10:24:55 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
Somebody needs to take a chill pill...

Dan
5J

Shack! Good hit on a nerve.

On the other hand, to answer an earlier question about Academy grads who are involved in soaring, Jim Payne comes to mind. Chesley "Sully" Sullengerger also flew at USAFA Soaring. His most notable gliding achievement was with an Airbus 320.

I know eight other glider pilots who flew at USAFA Soaring. None glided to 76000' or the Hudson River. But neither did they embarrass themselves and their alma mater in a spectacularly public way.

As a former USAF E-5, O-3, and pilot, I simply took issue with your lame
comments. No nerves hit.

I've no doubt that any of the USAFA grads who happened to participate in
the gliding program could have done as Payne and Sullenberger did. They
just didn't have the same opportunities to do so.

Oh, and I got my commission through OTS and discovered gliding on my own.

Dan
5J

On 3/30/21 11:00 AM, biff the dotard wrote:
On Tuesday, March 30, 2021 at 10:24:55 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
Somebody needs to take a chill pill...

Dan
5J

Shack! Good hit on a nerve.

On the other hand, to answer an earlier question about Academy grads who are involved in soaring, Jim Payne comes to mind. Chesley "Sully" Sullengerger also flew at USAFA Soaring. His most notable gliding achievement was with an Airbus 320.

I know eight other glider pilots who flew at USAFA Soaring. None glided to 76000' or the Hudson River. But neither did they embarrass themselves and their alma mater in a spectacularly public way.

Those academy kids with their tailhook parties are a disgrace ; )