Purists are from Pluto, Motorgliderists are from Mars - #2

Yep, and wears out quicker.

Dan
5J

On 4/27/21 4:48 PM, waremark wrote:
cold engine develops more power.

On 4/28/2021 10:31 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
Yep, and wears out quicker.

Dan
5J

On 4/27/21 4:48 PM, waremark wrote:
cold engine develops more power.

The typical self-launcher puts maybe 5-10 hours a year on the engine. If it only
lasts 200 hours before a major overall, that's 20 to 40 years! The Stemme is
usual for a self-launcher because it's also a good airplane, and 200 hours might
be only two or three years.

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

I've owned my Stemme now for 5 years and have logged around 850 hours
(327 flights) on it. I think I've used around 80 engine hours during
that time which is about 15 minutes per flight (start, taxi, takeoff,
and cool down). I tow the glider from my hangar to the apron before
rigging.

And yes, I fly with a different mind set than I did in my LAK-17a: I
must be within range of a runway suitable to make a normal takeoff at
all times.

Dan
5J

On 4/28/21 3:06 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 4/28/2021 10:31 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
Yep, and wears out quicker.

Dan
5J

On 4/27/21 4:48 PM, waremark wrote:
cold engine develops more power.

The typical self-launcher puts maybe 5-10 hours a year on the engine. If
it only lasts 200 hours before a major overall, that's 20 to 40 years!
The Stemme is usual for a self-launcher because it's also a good
airplane, and 200 hours might be only two or three years.

Doesn't sound like you need to worry about engine life, either, unless your TBO
is Real Soon Now.

On 4/28/2021 2:23 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
I've owned my Stemme now for 5 years and have logged around 850 hours (327
flights) on it.Â* I think I've used around 80 engine hours during that time which
is about 15 minutes per flight (start, taxi, takeoff, and cool down).Â* I tow the
glider from my hangar to the apron before rigging.

And yes, I fly with a different mind set than I did in my LAK-17a:Â* I must be
within range of a runway suitable to make a normal takeoff at all times.

Dan
5J

On 4/28/21 3:06 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 4/28/2021 10:31 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
Yep, and wears out quicker.

Dan
5J

On 4/27/21 4:48 PM, waremark wrote:
cold engine develops more power.

The typical self-launcher puts maybe 5-10 hours a year on the engine. If it
only lasts 200 hours before a major overall, that's 20 to 40 years! The Stemme
is usual for a self-launcher because it's also a good airplane, and 200 hours
might be only two or three years.



--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Engine's got less than 200 hours on it.

Dan
5J

On 4/28/21 5:05 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Doesn't sound like you need to worry about engine life, either, unless
your TBO is Real Soon Now.

On 4/28/2021 2:23 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
I've owned my Stemme now for 5 years and have logged around 850 hours
(327 flights) on it.Â* I think I've used around 80 engine hours during
that time which is about 15 minutes per flight (start, taxi, takeoff,
and cool down).Â* I tow the glider from my hangar to the apron before
rigging.

And yes, I fly with a different mind set than I did in my LAK-17a:Â* I
must be within range of a runway suitable to make a normal takeoff at
all times.

Dan
5J

On 4/28/21 3:06 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 4/28/2021 10:31 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
Yep, and wears out quicker.

Dan
5J

On 4/27/21 4:48 PM, waremark wrote:
cold engine develops more power.

The typical self-launcher puts maybe 5-10 hours a year on the engine.
If it only lasts 200 hours before a major overall, that's 20 to 40
years! The Stemme is usual for a self-launcher because it's also a
good airplane, and 200 hours might be only two or three years.

On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 5:06:23 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 4/28/2021 10:31 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
Yep, and wears out quicker.

Dan
5J

On 4/27/21 4:48 PM, waremark wrote:
cold engine develops more power.
The typical self-launcher puts maybe 5-10 hours a year on the engine. If it only
lasts 200 hours before a major overall, that's 20 to 40 years! The Stemme is
usual for a self-launcher because it's also a good airplane, and 200 hours might
be only two or three years.
--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
Eric, are you hitting on the bong? You cannot even admit that you must manage your flight differently. This is beginning to become comical.

On 4/28/2021 2:39 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 5:06:23 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 4/28/2021 10:31 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
Yep, and wears out quicker.

Dan
5J

On 4/27/21 4:48 PM, waremark wrote:
cold engine develops more power.
The typical self-launcher puts maybe 5-10 hours a year on the engine. If it only
lasts 200 hours before a major overall, that's 20 to 40 years! The Stemme is
usual for a self-launcher because it's also a good airplane, and 200 hours might
be only two or three years.
--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
Eric, are you hitting on the bong? You cannot even admit that you must manage your flight differently. This is beginning to become comical.

Yes, I do manage the flights differently than when I flew towed gliders - that's
the POINT of owning a motorglider: to do things differently from tow planes and
retrieval crews. We keep telling you this over and over, but you obsess over the
idea we do it for some huge flight performance and safety reason. Again, in
order of importance to me: self-launching means I can fly from my home airport,
or almost any airport around the country, even Canada and Alaska (me and my
glider have made that trip); I can reliably make it home, even if I misjudge the
weather, which I like and delights my wife ("best glider we've ever had", she
says); and I can sometimes push my "lift luck" and risk a field landing if the
engine doesn't start.

You also miss the point that there is a large variation in flight management
between pilots; for example, between Ramy Yanetz and Bob Youngblood, even though
they both fly unpowered gliders. Skills, crew availability, wealth,
work/retirement status, health, personality, motored/towed, and more all affect
how a pilot manages a flight. The motored/towed is just one these many factors
involved.

If you'd fly in some contests, or attempted record flights, or just got out of
Florida and flew out a few other places than your nest in Vero, I think you
might better understand what we are trying to tell you.

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 4:28:50 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 4/28/2021 2:39 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 5:06:23 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 4/28/2021 10:31 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
Yep, and wears out quicker.

Dan
5J

On 4/27/21 4:48 PM, waremark wrote:
cold engine develops more power.
The typical self-launcher puts maybe 5-10 hours a year on the engine. If it only
lasts 200 hours before a major overall, that's 20 to 40 years! The Stemme is
usual for a self-launcher because it's also a good airplane, and 200 hours might
be only two or three years.
--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
Eric, are you hitting on the bong? You cannot even admit that you must manage your flight differently. This is beginning to become comical.

Yes, I do manage the flights differently than when I flew towed gliders - that's
the POINT of owning a motorglider: to do things differently from tow planes and
retrieval crews. We keep telling you this over and over, but you obsess over the
idea we do it for some huge flight performance and safety reason. Again, in
order of importance to me: self-launching means I can fly from my home airport,
or almost any airport around the country, even Canada and Alaska (me and my
glider have made that trip); I can reliably make it home, even if I misjudge the
weather, which I like and delights my wife ("best glider we've ever had", she
says); and I can sometimes push my "lift luck" and risk a field landing if the
engine doesn't start.

You also miss the point that there is a large variation in flight management
between pilots; for example, between Ramy Yanetz and Bob Youngblood, even though
they both fly unpowered gliders. Skills, crew availability, wealth,
work/retirement status, health, personality, motored/towed, and more all affect
how a pilot manages a flight. The motored/towed is just one these many factors
involved.

If you'd fly in some contests, or attempted record flights, or just got out of
Florida and flew out a few other places than your nest in Vero, I think you
might better understand what we are trying to tell you.
--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
Bob seems to want a different contest category for motorgliders for some perceived advantage they do or do not have. Well, this is the WRONG forum for addressing said grievance - take it to OLC if you want some special category. I think that Bob already knows what the answer will be and just wants to vent ad nauseum.

Personally, my experience in actual contests is that MGs have a DISADVANTAGE in the form of undumpable ballast - the pure gliders get get back on weak days and us MGs had to land out (literally at that time). I quickly concluded that if I wanted to compete I would have to buy a pure glider. Not being that interested in competitions, I stopped participating in contests. OLC is more like a handicapped golf tournament - a friendly way to compare flights, not a serious contest per se.

Tom

On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 7:57:32 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 4:28:50 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 4/28/2021 2:39 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 5:06:23 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 4/28/2021 10:31 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
Yep, and wears out quicker.

Dan
5J

On 4/27/21 4:48 PM, waremark wrote:
cold engine develops more power.
The typical self-launcher puts maybe 5-10 hours a year on the engine.. If it only
lasts 200 hours before a major overall, that's 20 to 40 years! The Stemme is
usual for a self-launcher because it's also a good airplane, and 200 hours might
be only two or three years.
--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
Eric, are you hitting on the bong? You cannot even admit that you must manage your flight differently. This is beginning to become comical.

Yes, I do manage the flights differently than when I flew towed gliders - that's
the POINT of owning a motorglider: to do things differently from tow planes and
retrieval crews. We keep telling you this over and over, but you obsess over the
idea we do it for some huge flight performance and safety reason. Again, in
order of importance to me: self-launching means I can fly from my home airport,
or almost any airport around the country, even Canada and Alaska (me and my
glider have made that trip); I can reliably make it home, even if I misjudge the
weather, which I like and delights my wife ("best glider we've ever had", she
says); and I can sometimes push my "lift luck" and risk a field landing if the
engine doesn't start.

You also miss the point that there is a large variation in flight management
between pilots; for example, between Ramy Yanetz and Bob Youngblood, even though
they both fly unpowered gliders. Skills, crew availability, wealth,
work/retirement status, health, personality, motored/towed, and more all affect
how a pilot manages a flight. The motored/towed is just one these many factors
involved.

If you'd fly in some contests, or attempted record flights, or just got out of
Florida and flew out a few other places than your nest in Vero, I think you
might better understand what we are trying to tell you.
--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
Bob seems to want a different contest category for motorgliders for some perceived advantage they do or do not have. Well, this is the WRONG forum for addressing said grievance - take it to OLC if you want some special category. I think that Bob already knows what the answer will be and just wants to vent ad nauseum.

Personally, my experience in actual contests is that MGs have a DISADVANTAGE in the form of undumpable ballast - the pure gliders get get back on weak days and us MGs had to land out (literally at that time). I quickly concluded that if I wanted to compete I would have to buy a pure glider. Not being that interested in competitions, I stopped participating in contests. OLC is more like a handicapped golf tournament - a friendly way to compare flights, not a serious contest per se.

Tom
2G, I do not recall saying anything about contest scoring as you have stated, I give you this opportunity to correct me if I have advocated that idea. Possibly you do not read well and draw incorrect conclusions much too often. What I have said from the beginning is that there is a difference in the advantage that a MG has over a pure glider, you seem to think that this is incorrect. You mentioned ballast, I fly often with ballast, I have filled the damn thing up to the rim and added even more weight to the cockpit, do I look at this as a disadvantage, hell no, I know when to dump! For your information I have flown in many different places, none are more challenging than year around flying in Florida. Don't knock Vero, you should be so lucky, I walk out my back door on to my own runway and enjoy life, maybe you don't have that luxury, I wish you better success in the future.
What I have said is that there should be a different class for MG flight as compared to the purist. I do not have that luxury of closing a triangle and starting my engine to get back to where I started from, that certainly is an advantage, say you?
Let me extend the same invitation to you as I extended to Eric, come on down to Florida, you can stay here at the ranch, fly from the backyard and I will join you and others on a great flight throughout the swampy terrain.
I know what your response will be, yes we both flew the same distance , but wouldn't you agree that our flight management is a bit different, wound you not say that the risk assessment is a bit different.
I met a guy named George, back in or around 1980's, I guess he would be in his 90's now, what do you think his take on all this would be? Your friend , Old Bob

On 4/28/2021 7:19 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 7:57:32 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:

What I have said is that there should be a different class for MG flight as compared to the purist. I do not have that luxury of closing a triangle and starting my engine to get back to where I started from, that certainly is an advantage, say you?
Let me extend the same invitation to you as I extended to Eric, come on down to Florida, you can stay here at the ranch, fly from the backyard and I will join you and others on a great flight throughout the swampy terrain.
I know what your response will be, yes we both flew the same distance , but wouldn't you agree that our flight management is a bit different, wound you not say that the risk assessment is a bit different.
I met a guy named George, back in or around 1980's, I guess he would be in his 90's now, what do you think his take on all this would be? Your friend , Old Bob

What would be better if motorless and motored gliders are in separate classes?
Would you fly in contests if that was done? Why do you think it hasn't happened
already?
--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1