Replacing aging club Grobs...best options?

We did the same evaluation a few years ago, comparing the DG1001 club neo, ASK21B and Perkosz. We ended up buying a new winch instead of a new glider, though.

The costs for all three were basically the same. DG gave us their factory ship with fixed gear for an evaluation weekend and the club members were very pleased with it. The wings were quite light for such a ship and it was easy to rig. But the rudder pedals for the backseat were not adjustable. Flight performance was comparable to an LS4 and it was very silent in the glider during flight. It was not possible to get a Perkosz for testing purpuse. It has been out of production for a while since they changed the factory producing the glider. But it should become available soon.

Our conclusion was, that if you consider a ship for anything else than basic training, the ASK21 is out of the game. The Perkosz and DG1001 club neo have significantly better performance, good flight characteristics and are suitable for spin training.

If basic training is the most important thing for you, the ASK21 might be the better choice, because it is probably the toughest twoseater available. It can take a lot of punishment.

Christoph

On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 4:31:14 PM UTC+10, Christoph Barniske wrote:
We did the same evaluation a few years ago, comparing the DG1001 club neo, ASK21B and Perkosz. We ended up buying a new winch instead of a new glider, though.

The costs for all three were basically the same. DG gave us their factory ship with fixed gear for an evaluation weekend and the club members were very pleased with it. The wings were quite light for such a ship and it was easy to rig. But the rudder pedals for the backseat were not adjustable. Flight performance was comparable to an LS4 and it was very silent in the glider during flight. It was not possible to get a Perkosz for testing purpuse.. It has been out of production for a while since they changed the factory producing the glider. But it should become available soon.

Our conclusion was, that if you consider a ship for anything else than basic training, the ASK21 is out of the game. The Perkosz and DG1001 club neo have significantly better performance, good flight characteristics and are suitable for spin training.

If basic training is the most important thing for you, the ASK21 might be the better choice, because it is probably the toughest twoseater available.. It can take a lot of punishment.

Christoph

The ASK21b is probably the best training-only glider ever made - the DG1001 is a great compromise between training and early XC, but slightly too slippery to be a perfect trainer. Never flown a Perkoz.

On Mon, 24 May 2021 23:31:12 -0700, Christoph Barniske wrote:

Our conclusion was, that if you consider a ship for anything else than
basic training, the ASK21 is out of the game. The Perkosz and DG1001
club neo have significantly better performance, good flight
characteristics and are suitable for spin training.

Don't believe anybody who says the ASK-21 can't be spun without tail
weights: my pre-solo spin training was done in an ASK-21. Flown off the
winch, thermalled up to safe height and went spinning. It doesn't spin
easily unless the instructor know the magic, absolute minimum energy at
initiation, formula, but it can be spun and recovery is normal. It may or
may not be relevant, but neither that instructor or myself were above
average weight: I normally fly the '21 solo with a parachute, the seat
back in the rear notch and no weights.

I've never flown a 21b so have no idea whether it can also be spun
without tail weight.


If basic training is the most important thing for you, the ASK21 might
be the better choice, because it is probably the toughest twoseater
available. It can take a lot of punishment.

Agreed.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

On 5/25/2021 2:31 AM, Christoph Barniske wrote:
...

Our conclusion was, that if you consider a ship for anything else than basic training, the ASK21 is out of the game. ...

The ASK-21 (and other gliders of similar performance) can be flown XC
quite well. And perhaps learning to do that is better training than
jumping right into a glider that has higher performance than the first
single seater the student is likely to buy?

See what UH has done in XC mentoring in his ASK21.

I am writing this as somebody who flys XC in a "Russia" AC4 in the NE
US. Similar (or slightly lower) performance to the ASK-21.