![]() |
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
"Pechs1" wrote in message
... John- Slotted stabs were a retrofit. I'll ask my B-driver coworkers about the flaps ... I think one of 'em even has a NATOPS (and a tacman as well!?!). BRBR Thanks...I saw that the 'B's flown by the Blues had slotted stabs and aileron dropp but not sure about the fleet birds. I flew the 'N' that had both..but they were 'N' models, after-all. Sure miss that A/C, the Phantom... P. C. Chisholm CDR, USN(ret.) Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer Correct me if I'm wrong, but, I don't believe the Blues ever flew the F-4B. If my memory serves me correctly they received brand new F-4Js when they transitioned from F-11s to the Phantoms (early 1969?). Steve |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
"Steve Tobey" wrote in
: "Pechs1" wrote in message ... John- Slotted stabs were a retrofit. I'll ask my B-driver coworkers about the flaps ... I think one of 'em even has a NATOPS (and a tacman as well!?!). BRBR Thanks...I saw that the 'B's flown by the Blues had slotted stabs and aileron dropp but not sure about the fleet birds. I flew the 'N' that had both..but they were 'N' models, after-all. Sure miss that A/C, the Phantom... P. C. Chisholm CDR, USN(ret.) Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer Correct me if I'm wrong, but, I don't believe the Blues ever flew the F-4B. If my memory serves me correctly they received brand new F-4Js when they transitioned from F-11s to the Phantoms (early 1969?). Steve From: http://www.blueangels.navy.mil/history/history.html The ensuing 20 years saw the Blue Angels transition into two more aircraft. In 1957 the team began flying the Grumman F11F-1 Tiger, followed in 1969 by team's first dual-engine jet, the McDonnell Douglas F-4J Phantom II. The CHINFO site confirms this. Dave in San Diego -- - "For once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward; For there you have been, and there you long to return." Leonardo da Vinci |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
doug- followed in 1969 by team's first dual-engine jet, the McDonnell Douglas
F-4J Phantom II. BRBR I guess the first ones had the -8 engine then. 'The internet, is it still around?' Thanks- P. C. Chisholm CDR, USN(ret.) Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
stobey- Correct me if I'm wrong, but, I don't believe the Blues ever flew the
F-4B. If my memory serves me correctly they received brand new F-4Js when they transitioned from F-11s to the Phantoms (early 1969?). BRBR Not sure the F-4J was around in 1969 but the F-4s in 'Threshold' have -8 engines, not -10s found on the 'J'. No 'J' had -8 engines, AFAIK. P. C. Chisholm CDR, USN(ret.) Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
"Pechs1" wrote:
stobey- Correct me if I'm wrong, but, I don't believe the Blues ever flew the F-4B. If my memory serves me correctly they received brand new F-4Js when they transitioned from F-11s to the Phantoms (early 1969?). BRBR Not sure the F-4J was around in 1969 The first flight of the F-4J was in 1966 and it was being delivered to operational squadrons by 1967 according to Francis Mason in Phantom. Several sources state that VF-33 and VF-102 were equiped with F-4Js aboard USS America in 1968. Those sources include this one: http://www.ussamerica.org/Airwing.htm but the F-4s in 'Threshold' have -8 engines, not -10s found on the 'J'. No 'J' had -8 engines, AFAIK. P. C. Chisholm CDR, USN(ret.) Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
![]() |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
"Peter Stickney" wrote:
In article , (Pechs1) writes: stobey- Correct me if I'm wrong, but, I don't believe the Blues ever flew the F-4B. If my memory serves me correctly they received brand new F-4Js when they transitioned from F-11s to the Phantoms (early 1969?). BRBR Not sure the F-4J was around in 1969 but the F-4s in 'Threshold' have -8 engines, not -10s found on the 'J'. No 'J' had -8 engines, AFAIK. I've never flown an F-4, but I do happen to have NAVAIR NATOPS 01-245FDD-1 handy (The F-4J book, May '75 revision), just in case I find one in a barn, or somebody leavis it to me in their will, or something, and, when thumbing through it, I found this, which may help. Page 1-58: "The airplane is powered by two General Electric J79 engines. Aircraft 153071z thru 153087aa have J79-GE-8 engines installed, with a thrust rating of 10,900 pounds each. Afterburner operation increases the maximum thrust to 17,000 pounds. Aircraft 153088aa and up have J79-GE-10 engines installed, with a thrust rating of 11,870 pounds each. Afterburner operation increases the maximum thrust to 17,900 pounds each." The airplanes with the -8 engines would be the Block 26z and 27aa (Why does the Navy have to have a different name for everything?) airplanes, for a total of 18 ships. Guess what according to Joseph Baugher's web site those include aircraft flown by the Blue Angels: http://home.att.net/~jbaugher/thirdseries19.html |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Brett- The airplane is powered by two General Electric J79 engines. Aircraft
153071z thru 153087aa have J79-GE-8 engines installed, with a thrust rating of 10,900 pounds each. Afterburner operation increases the maximum thrust to 17,000 pounds. Aircraft 153088aa and up have J79-GE-10 engines installed, BRBR There ya go, thanks..answers all my questions. P. C. Chisholm CDR, USN(ret.) Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Page 1-58: "The airplane is powered by two General Electric J79 engines. Aircraft 153071z thru 153087aa have J79-GE-8 engines installed, with a thrust rating of 10,900 pounds each. Afterburner operation increases the maximum thrust to 17,000 pounds. Aircraft 153088aa and up have J79-GE-10 engines installed, with a thrust rating of 11,870 pounds each. Afterburner operation increases the maximum thrust to 17,900 pounds each." Seems strange that the -10 has only 2,000 more pounds thrust w/o burner and only 900 pounds more with burner. I know that each aircraft has two engines so that comes out to an additional 4,000 pounds thrust w/o burner. Does that sound right? |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
"Joe Delphi" wrote in message link.net...
Page 1-58: "The airplane is powered by two General Electric J79 engines. Aircraft 153071z thru 153087aa have J79-GE-8 engines installed, with a thrust rating of 10,900 pounds each. Afterburner operation increases the maximum thrust to 17,000 pounds. Aircraft 153088aa and up have J79-GE-10 engines installed, with a thrust rating of 11,870 pounds each. Afterburner operation increases the maximum thrust to 17,900 pounds each." Seems strange that the -10 has only 2,000 more pounds thrust w/o burner and only 900 pounds more with burner. I know that each aircraft has two engines so that comes out to an additional 4,000 pounds thrust w/o burner. Does that sound right? Well, 11,870 - 10900 = 970, so _that_ part's not too close. But it's really not too odd, one you look at the fundamentals. I'm going to be simplifying a bit, for those who don't like Thermodynamics. Basically, a jet engine develops thrust by squirting hot air out the back. The hotter the air, the more thrust for a given amount of airflow. So far, that's pretty straightforward - you pull in a bunch of air, squish it so that you can burn more fuel in it, burn the fuel to heat it up. aand squirt it out the back. However, making it work is a little more complicated. It takes a lot of power to compress the air. The best way to get that power is to stick a turbine in the hot gas comin out of the burners, and use that to drive the compressor. So far, so good, but the turbine blades can only get so hot before they deform and fail. So, you can only heat the air up a certain amount. (Using the turbine to extract energy from the hot gas also cools it down quite a bit, too.) This maximum Turbine Entry Temperature is basically what drives the amount of unaugmented Or, as its sometimes called, Dry) thrust that a jet engine can produce. One solution to get more thrust is to heat the air up after it has flowed through the turbine. (Afterburning) The amount of heat that can be added is much greater, being limited by either the tail pipe's materiels, or by how much fuel you can pump in. As you can guess, though, you end up burning an awful lot of fuel. For an F-4J, sitting on the runway, is burning about 10,000#/hour/engine at Military (Max. unaugmented) thrust, and pretty close to 36,000#/hour/engine with the Afterburners operating. If you like, you can think of an afterburning turbojet as two engines: The turbojet itself, and a ramjet downstream. The amount of thrust produced by one is only indirectly related to the amount of thrust produced by the other. -- Pete Stickney |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
![]() |
||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
AOPA Stall/Spin Study -- Stowell's Review (8,000 words) | Rich Stowell | Aerobatics | 28 | January 2nd 09 02:26 PM |
Bush Pilots Fly-In. South Africa. | Bush Air | Home Built | 0 | May 25th 04 06:18 AM |
[OT] USA - TSA Obstructing Armed Pilots? | No Spam! | Military Aviation | 120 | January 27th 04 10:19 AM |
Joint German-Israeli airforce excersie (Israeli airforce beats German pilots) | Quant | Military Aviation | 8 | September 25th 03 05:41 PM |
USAF = US Amphetamine Fools | RT | Military Aviation | 104 | September 25th 03 03:17 PM |