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Predicting the future...Who'd a thought this little nugget sensor operator
would have gone from chasing Soviet subs in the North Atlantic to flying ISR mission over Afghanistan - in less than 20 years ![]() I am heartened a little by the recent DHL incident - I always thought that a MANPAD was 100% fatal. Dano "s.p.i." wrote in message om... "dano" wrote in message ... "...since no P-3s have been lost to hostile fire in 50 years..." I wonder where you got your information from, try http://www.vpnavy.com/vp26_mishap.html , second entry from bottom. Also, see http://www.beernabeer.com/First.htm Cheers, Dano, VP-26 alumni 83-89 mea culpa...You know, when I sent that last post there was a little nagging feeling that I should've the Market Time histories. May those souls rest in peace. However, this simply buttresses my case. Where was this P-3-and also the only other P-3 combat casualty-lost? In a Littoral conflict. Where is the MMA expected to spend much of its service life...? |
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"dano" wrote in message ...
Predicting the future...Who'd a thought this little nugget sensor operator would have gone from chasing Soviet subs in the North Atlantic to flying ISR mission over Afghanistan - in less than 20 years ![]() I am heartened a little by the recent DHL incident - I always thought that a MANPAD was 100% fatal. Dano So Dano, which is your choice? The Boeing 73 variant or the LM Orion 21? |
#3
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I am truly torn...I have 5800+ hours in Lockheed's lowest MPA bid, but I
think the case for a 737 frame is also strong. Since I'm a sensor operator, I am more interested in what's in the tube. I would imagine with a larger tube the 737 would be more versitile and the logistics might be easier (COTS A&P) but there would have to be some new infrastructure (i.e. GSE, hangars, etc). In the end, it will all come down to which pile has the smaller number of beans. Dano "s.p.i." wrote in message om... "dano" wrote in message ... Predicting the future...Who'd a thought this little nugget sensor operator would have gone from chasing Soviet subs in the North Atlantic to flying ISR mission over Afghanistan - in less than 20 years ![]() I am heartened a little by the recent DHL incident - I always thought that a MANPAD was 100% fatal. Dano So Dano, which is your choice? The Boeing 73 variant or the LM Orion 21? |
#4
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COTS is the worst thing ever thought up, from a
maintenance/logistics standpoint. It all boils down to "pay me now, or pay me later". COTS works well from an operational standpoint if it can be integrated properly, but then never gets supported from a maintenance training standpoint. Also, the TAT of COTS is so high, we end up robbing birds at home to support deployed mission assetts, due to inadequate sparing of COTS. #1 complaint and priority of CPWP-10 is "inadequate support and high TAT of COTS". Of course the P-3 AW's and EP-3 8284's and EWOPS don't see this, all they care about is if their stuff works or not, as it should be. It really scares me that the push for COTS and O to D maintenance is so short sighted. I believe it is much better to maintain the status quo and make military aviation/avionics self supportive and not rely so much on contract and depot (civilian) support. On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 18:39:16 -1000, "dano" wrote: I am truly torn...I have 5800+ hours in Lockheed's lowest MPA bid, but I think the case for a 737 frame is also strong. Since I'm a sensor operator, I am more interested in what's in the tube. I would imagine with a larger tube the 737 would be more versitile and the logistics might be easier (COTS A&P) but there would have to be some new infrastructure (i.e. GSE, hangars, etc). In the end, it will all come down to which pile has the smaller number of beans. Dano "s.p.i." wrote in message . com... "dano" wrote in message ... Predicting the future...Who'd a thought this little nugget sensor operator would have gone from chasing Soviet subs in the North Atlantic to flying ISR mission over Afghanistan - in less than 20 years ![]() I am heartened a little by the recent DHL incident - I always thought that a MANPAD was 100% fatal. Dano So Dano, which is your choice? The Boeing 73 variant or the LM Orion 21? |
#5
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Well, I think I am getting in way over my head with this thread
![]() I am just going by the dog and pony that Boeing put on for us peasants. IRT COTS I was referring more to the airframe and powerplants than the avionics - I'm pretty sure the stuff I operated was not COTS (SS-3)! BTW, greetings from Wing "V." If you are with Wing "X", say hello to the AWCM. Feel free to write me in a sidebar...dano "fudog50" wrote in message ... COTS is the worst thing ever thought up, from a maintenance/logistics standpoint. It all boils down to "pay me now, or pay me later". COTS works well from an operational standpoint if it can be integrated properly, but then never gets supported from a maintenance training standpoint. Also, the TAT of COTS is so high, we end up robbing birds at home to support deployed mission assetts, due to inadequate sparing of COTS. #1 complaint and priority of CPWP-10 is "inadequate support and high TAT of COTS". Of course the P-3 AW's and EP-3 8284's and EWOPS don't see this, all they care about is if their stuff works or not, as it should be. It really scares me that the push for COTS and O to D maintenance is so short sighted. I believe it is much better to maintain the status quo and make military aviation/avionics self supportive and not rely so much on contract and depot (civilian) support. On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 18:39:16 -1000, "dano" wrote: I am truly torn...I have 5800+ hours in Lockheed's lowest MPA bid, but I think the case for a 737 frame is also strong. Since I'm a sensor operator, I am more interested in what's in the tube. I would imagine with a larger tube the 737 would be more versitile and the logistics might be easier (COTS A&P) but there would have to be some new infrastructure (i.e. GSE, hangars, etc). In the end, it will all come down to which pile has the smaller number of beans. Dano "s.p.i." wrote in message . com... "dano" wrote in message ... Predicting the future...Who'd a thought this little nugget sensor operator would have gone from chasing Soviet subs in the North Atlantic to flying ISR mission over Afghanistan - in less than 20 years ![]() I am heartened a little by the recent DHL incident - I always thought that a MANPAD was 100% fatal. Dano So Dano, which is your choice? The Boeing 73 variant or the LM Orion 21? |
#6
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"dano" wrote in message ...
Predicting the future...Who'd a thought this little nugget sensor operator would have gone from chasing Soviet subs in the North Atlantic to flying ISR mission over Afghanistan - in less than 20 years ![]() At least what has been put out publicly, due to survivabilty considerations, the MMA won't be doing overland ISR. I am heartened a little by the recent DHL incident - I always thought that a MANPAD was 100% fatal. It was a miracle that the DHL wasn't fatal. They had no hydraulics, and the after spar was only moments away from failure. If they had taken a good gust load the outcome would have been much worse. Like I said before, those guys need never play the Lotto because they used up every bit of luck they may ever have. Of note, the second VP-26 loss sounds like it was a spar failure caused by fire too. Hydrodynamic ram induced fire I'd bet. Better protection from hydrodynamic ram fires should be a priority for large aircraft both military and civil...And of course its a bad idea to expect large aircraft-especially large aircraft designed for civil use-to survive over hot battlefields, your OEF experience notwithstanding. How much of a maintenance headache has the fuel tank foam been Dano? Backfitting survivability is always problematic and expensive. MANPADS are not the only threat. There is this capability coming on the export market: "Russian guided-weapons builder Novator is continuing to work, albeit slowly, on an ultralong-range air-to-air missile, with a version on offer for export to a select customer set. Designated article 172, the weapon was included on a model of the Su-35 derivative of the Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker, on display during the Dubai air show. The export version, known as the 172S1, has a 300-km. (186-mi.) range, compared with 400 km. for the original version specified by the Russian air force. The missile, which is also referred to (perhaps erroneously) as the KS-172, is intended to engage specific high-value targets such as airborne warning and control aircraft, air-to-ground surveillance and tanker platforms." |
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